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Re: Old WWF question...
WCW was bullshit because every Nitro ended with a double DQ.
NWA/WCW was always like that. Its the main shit stain on that company's legacy. They wouldn't allow proper matches, even though they had superior talent in the 80s. Not even on PPV main events. To this day its a crime that the Nikita/Flair world title match at Starrcade 86 ended in a lame DQ.
Re: Old WWF question...
It's been said by others, but it was basically a combination of the steroid scandal, and Ted Turner recruiting talent away from WWF. In the 80's, wrestling was huge, led by the Hulk Hogan phenomenon. By 92, he was becoming old & decrepit & could no longer carry the throne, only he was irreplacable. WWF & it's rating took a nosedive. McMahon thought there was something wrong & kept trying to change things, but there was no way the ratings could sustain the audience it held throughout the mid-late 80's.
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: Old WWF question...
Speaking of the NWO, man was that a genius idea or what? I was a WWF guy and didnt like WCW, but it had my interest. Too bad they fucked it up when they had all those factions, it became a joke. I remember laughing when I saw the Giant (Big Show) smoking a cigarette in the ring!:laugh: It had became a parody of itself.
Re: Old WWF question...
Yeah, NWO was great. A whole "different league" within the league. WCW's ratings were at an all time high then, back around 96-99. It was great how they were anti-establishment. Don't remember that about Giant, although wasn't he a big boozer? that might not have been scripted 
I might be thinking of Nash though. Hall & Nash kicked ass back then.
Re: Old WWF question...
Sadly, I find this to be the most interesting current thread going and I haven't watched wrestling in 15 years.
I agree. Had I known there were more old school wrestling fans here besides myself, I would have started a similar discussion ages ago.
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: Old WWF question...
I remember when the whole NWO thing was fresh and everyone thought that they were sent to invade the WCW by the WWF (they did a good job of potraying that). Then Jim Ross teased Razor Ramon and Diesel's return to the WWF. Then he brings back to fakes playing those characters. I was so pissed! (And naive). Little did we know, that Diesel was the future Kane, and had been Issac Yankem, DDS.
Re: Old WWF question...
Tons of casual fans stopped watching. Their venues went from sellouts to what looked like a Chinese Democracy tour in the blink of an eye.
Ouch.
Vince's big mistake before doing this was not having the Hogan/Flair dream match that people all over the world had wanted since 1984. He had a once in a lifetime event in the palm of his hands, but for some reason never properly pulled the trigger. Flair and Hogan feuded a bit at that time, but it revolved around giving the Undertaker a push and a proper match never materialized.
The story behind that for Vince, was at the time, it was alot like the scenario of the Hogan/Austin dream ticket of today. Hogan & Flair's egos were so gigantic, that NEITHER of them were willing to job to the other.
This naturally tied Vince's hands, and the match never came to fruition under his watch. Then they go to WCW, Turner threw enough money at them to get them to sign off on it, and by that point no one cared.
I think alot of this is the same issue with Hogan/Austin. I think there's alot of people that'd love to see Austin in at least one more match (he said not long ago, he's physically is in enough shape to wrestle for up to two years) full time, if he had to). But I think where the catch is... no one wants to see Austin get back in the ring against the aging Hogan. Plus Austin's been out of it for so long... will he be the Axl Rose of wrestling? The comeback is a major disappointment, because it's not like the hey day, the prime.
When Vince washed his hands of these aging stars, NWA/WCW took the easy way out and signed them. They actually played into Vince's hands by doing this. About a year later, wrestling fans got the Flair/Hogan dream match, but by that time no one cared because both men were long past the prime of their careers. While WCW was catering to Hogan, Flair, Savage,etc., new blood like Benoit, Austin, Malenko, Pilman, Guerrero,etc. were just sitting idle wasting their careers. WCW had to gradually let these guys go because they had to pay the veterans salaries, and of course Mcmahon snatched them up immediately.
Which didn't help those new blood wrestlers, because WCW was loaded with so much 'former' legends, that alot of those young guys felt that if the legends were telling you, that you were a "destined jobber", then it took all the wind out of your sails.
I think Austin said "getting fired from WCW was the best thing that ever happened to me." Not because of the legendary career he had later, but because WCW made him "lazy". He became content on being a mid-card jobber, and being stagnated with awful storyline pushes like "Stunning" Steve Austin. He went to ECW, and Heyman just handed him a mic and said "be yourself, say what you feel"... and the rest is history. "Stone Cold" was born. And the same exact scenario happened for alot of those guys from WCW. Heyman allowed Foley to become the legend he is today. And even though fans constantly say, HHH only got the push he got because he was "doin' Steph McMahon", HHH also earned alot of what he has today, regardless of that relationship. HHH was a dark match jobber over at WCW, and overnight became a mid-card draw at WWF. The DX thing only further cemented his status as a new era legend.
Yeah the NWO was a decent angle and kept the company afloat for a couple years, but it just showed that all they cared about was propping up wrestlers in their mid 40's/early 50's. I don't care that its fake, but Joe Blow doesn't want to see a 50 year old man as world champ when there's a ton of mid 20's talent wasting away. Even people who loved Flair and Hogan in their prime were sick of this garbage.
The nWo was only around for the time it was, because it was huge, at first, then eventually became WCW's only draw. It started out as one of the great factions of all time, with just that trio of Scott Hall, "Hollywood" Hogan, and "Big Sexy" Kevin Nash. Later on, everyone and their fuckin' grandmother was in nWo. Hell, I think I was actually a member of the nWo once. Then it got beyond stupid. Then you had nWo-Hollywood, and nWo-Wolfpac. By that point, the entire WCW roster was in the nWo. Then later you had nWo-2000... and it all got really lame.
Vince, when he bought WCW, tried to revive it, which at the time seemed interesting to have nWo over in the WWF locker room. Vince had the world in his hands. He could have MASSIVE cards like DX vs. nWo if he wanted, and at the time he was actually working the "Hollywood" Hogan vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin match, for the next WrestleMania at the time, the papers were waiting to be signed, but Hogan refused to job to Austin, even though Hogan's time had passed, and it was the right thing to do... to pass the torch to a new era superstar. It also was interesting when they revived nWo, with an idea to put guys like Booker T & HBK around Hogan, Nash & Hall, but that fell apart, because Hogan took off, Hall created backstage issues, and Nash got injured, pretty much killing any chance of a WWF-nWo. Would've been very interesting to see those worlds collide.
The issue with nWo over staying it's welcome, was something Vince showed he was much more keen with business, with DX. Vince knew DX's days were numbered when HBK "retired", and that core duo of HBK & HHH were missing it's one-half. Vince also understood, with any tag team or faction, it usually only has 1 YEAR for a life cycle, at most. You might can squeeze an additional six months out, but rarely. There were other attempts to revive DX, but it just wasn't the same. Plus HHH, became a bigger star than the faction, and it was simply time to move on. But what Vince's genious move was, was keeping DX's legacy alive. Although DX's appeal was waning towards the end, it never overly outstayed it's welcome, like the nWo did by about two whole years. This froze DX's popularity in time, and when it was revived as a tag team of HBK & HHH in 2006, it was HUGE for the WWE. All that love and appeal came pouring back in. But Vince also was smart enough to realize that, two 40-something superstars, acting like 14 year olds, only had MAYBE 6-10 months of a life cycle, and he was right. By early-2007, due to HHH's knee injury, it was shelved indefinitely. Although for awhile HBK continued to use the DX intro, and ever since they have had occasional "one night only" revivals. That duo has become an 'ace' in Vince's pocket, that he can pull out when interest is low. Unlike nWo, which no one wants to see again. Ironically... the nWo copycat has stood the test of time, more than the original.
Brett wrote:WCW was bullshit because every Nitro ended with a double DQ.
NWA/WCW was always like that. Its the main shit stain on that company's legacy. They wouldn't allow proper matches, even though they had superior talent in the 80s. Not even on PPV main events. To this day its a crime that the Nikita/Flair world title match at Starrcade 86 ended in a lame DQ.
Alot of that bullshit, according to the wrestlers themselves, was because NO ONE wanted to job. Vince understood this imo. He knew alot of those old timers had gotten too big for their britches, egos were out of control, and he knew that it was becoming increasingly difficult to book matches, especially main events.
WCW learned this very quickly after acquiring guys like Flair & Hogan, among others. The only way WCW could book main events, were to end all of them in a draw (or double DQ), because neither would lose, and neither would allow the other to win.
Re: Old WWF question...
WCW learned this very quickly after acquiring guys like Flair & Hogan, among others. The only way WCW could book main events, were to end all of them in a draw (or double DQ), because neither would lose, and neither would allow the other to win.
That's what I always hated about the whole WCW thing,come to think of it the only reason I even watched WCW back then was because of who was there,ofcourse it was the older wrestlers that I had watched while I was growing up,such as Flair,Hogan,Sting and so on.
