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- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
tejastech08.... if it wasn't for THAT scene.. i would agree with you guys...
that scene where he interrogates flass is the essence of batman.. using fear...
keaton didn't really have to change his voice because a. that bruce wayne was a loner and pretty much outta the spotlight and b. batman in the burton films was pretty much a mute... using implied fear, rather than outright scaring the shit outta people.. and when he did talk, it was a mumble/whisper....
sure the voice is annoying, but it could have been MUCH worse.....
Well, the best Bale Batman voice is when Rachel is in the Batcave under the influence of drugs. It's not his Bruce voice, but it is not growling and rough. It's almost a normal sounding voice, just a different American accent from Bale. I wish he would use that one more often in his regular conversations with the likes of Gordon. But unfortunately with TDK they took the growl even more over the top. Not sure why they did this after all the fan complaints with the Begins voice. These were complaints not from people who hated the movie but from people who LOVED it, including myself. Looking back, the Batman Begins voice is far less annoying than the TDK voice. Either way, though, Bale's physicality, anger, and intensity as Batman are perfect. And as Bruce, he is flawless all the way whether it be as the "real Bruce" or the fake playboy. As Batman, I love his eyes at the end of TDK, especially the part where Dent is complaining that it was only him who lost everything. Batman responds, "It wasn't!" and you can just see the emotion in his eyes thinking about Rachel. The other great part is when he turns to Gordon and says, "I killed those people. That's what I can be." The look in his eyes when he says that is just great.
Re: The BATMAN Thread
He doesn't have 2 personalities. He has 3. There's the real Bruce Wayne, Batman (also a real side of his personality), and the fake playboy Bruce Wayne. The third one is entirely a facade to hide his true personality. The real Bruce and Batman are very similar personalities, the only difference being that the real Bruce is more restrained than Batman. But he is not an aloof playboy. He merely puts that on to make people think he's completely incapable of being Batman. Here's where I think Burton's portrayal of Bruce falls down. In order for such a rich and famous person to operate as Batman, he can't be viewed as a weirdo by the public. Well Burton portrayed him as a very socially awkward guy. It is true that Bruce Wayne is fucked up in the head, so Burton definitely understood what it would take for someone to be Batman. But in order for him to get away with it without anyone knowing, he'd have to be one hell of an actor and be able to disguise to the public how much of a weirdo he is. That is why I prefer Nolan's version of Bruce.
As for Ledger's voice, there's one scene where he does one hell of a Hamill impersonation. It's the scene where he's talking about having the citizens kill Coleman Reese or he'll blow up a hospital. The part where he says, "I don't want Mr. Reese spoiling everything but why should I have all the fun?" sounds EERILY similar to Hamill's Joker voice. I thought it was pretty cool that they threw a nod to his version of the voice into the movie. Most of the time, Ledger's voice is so all over the place it's hard to tell what he sounds like. It's a fascinating performance. Sometimes he sounds like an old timey gangster from the 1930's movies and sometimes he sounds like a playful clown.
And I don't really think Bale is trying to copy Conroy. Bale said very explicitly that he wanted to portray Batman in a very animalistic way. That includes the growling voice. From day one, that is the portrayal he gave in his screentests and he said he was worried they would think he was crazy for portraying it like that, but apparently Nolan liked it. Conroy had a very nice change from his Batman voice to his Bruce voice. I wouldn't call his Batman voice animalistic though. It's just a deep voice. Definitely the best there ever was or will be in the Batman/Bruce voice department. I wish they were still making that cartoon to be quite honest.
Not me. It stayed pretty decent throughout, but obviously the best years were the initial "Batman: The Animated Series" years, with films like "Mask of the Phantasm". When it came back as "The Adventures of Batman & Robin", it was still strong, and Robin was portrayed much darker in the animated series, than the borderline-gay Robin of Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. But slowly the animated show started going down hill, getting more 'kiddie', with the intro of Robin. When it was revived as "The New Batman Adventures", and they had that whole justice league thing going on, it lost it's touch, and it was lower-quality, and even more kiddie with Batgirl. It still wasn't bad, just not what the show was in it's prime.
It was time for it to gracifully bow out.
I watched Batman Returns today for the first time in years. I must say - damn fine film. Underrated, and I just can't get enough of Burton's vision. I would put Returns on an equal-level with Batman '89. Equally good films. Too bad Burton didn't continue making them, because this one was even darker, and borderline fucked up, lol. I love it.
After getting reattached to Burton's, i'm gonna watch Nolan's in the next few weeks. A natural transition from old-to-new imo. Schumacher's can blow me. I'm not even going to bother re-watching them. I don't want to kill the good Batman-vibe I got right now.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Axl,
To be honest I have not really seen much of the newer part of the Batman cartoon. I've seen a couple of episodes and I agree that by that time it had gone down hill. But the original first few years of it was excellent. I wish they had continued in that style.
I love Batman Returns but I don't think it's quite as good as Batman '89. I love how dark and fucked up it is but there's also some insanely stupid shit in it (penguins with rocket launchers, LMFAO) that kind of hurts the film a bit. Overall though, definitely a damn good movie. I just got done watching B89 and I'm currently watching TDK. No offense to Jack because he was very good, but Heath completely blows him out of the water. I can't wait until B89 and BR get released on Blu-ray. Just from a home theater perspective, the difference is gigantic between watching B89 on shitty single layer DVD and TDK on dual layer Blu-ray. 4 gigs vs. 50 gigs. Fucking ridiculous difference in the transfer quality. The other factor is that B89 is a 20 year old movie and TDK is a new one. But if they did a good job cleaning up B89 and give it a good transfer to Blu, it will also look great. Fuckin' cannot wait until both B89 and BR get released on Blu. Hell, BR has even better visuals than B89 so it should be awesome to see it in high def.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
kinda off the point of the convo...
but in BB, at the end.. when gordon says "i didn't thank you".. and batman says "and you'll NEVER have to".....
THAT"S BATMAN.... i still get goosebumps...
ok..
nerd moment over...
proceed..
Yeah and it happens again in TDK.
Gordon: Thank you.
Batman: You don't have to thank me.
Gordon: Yes I do.
Both of those moments are goosebump-inducing. Both movies have perfect endings for Batman fans.
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Axl,
To be honest I have not really seen much of the newer part of the Batman cartoon. I've seen a couple of episodes and I agree that by that time it had gone down hill. But the original first few years of it was excellent. I wish they had continued in that style.
I love Batman Returns but I don't think it's quite as good as Batman '89. I love how dark and fucked up it is but there's also some insanely stupid shit in it (penguins with rocket launchers, LMFAO) that kind of hurts the film a bit. Overall though, definitely a damn good movie. I just got done watching B89 and I'm currently watching TDK. No offense to Jack because he was very good, but Heath completely blows him out of the water. I can't wait until B89 and BR get released on Blu-ray. Just from a home theater perspective, the difference is gigantic between watching B89 on shitty single layer DVD and TDK on dual layer Blu-ray. 4 gigs vs. 50 gigs. Fucking ridiculous difference in the transfer quality. The other factor is that B89 is a 20 year old movie and TDK is a new one. But if they did a good job cleaning up B89 and give it a good transfer to Blu, it will also look great. Fuckin' cannot wait until both B89 and BR get released on Blu. Hell, BR has even better visuals than B89 so it should be awesome to see it in high def.
And see your Blu Ray argument got me to thinking what my issues with the film are. BR imo will look better on Blu Ray than B89. The visuals in BR are amazing, and for a 1992 film, it holds it's age and look. It'll look like an all new film imo on Blu Ray.
What got me to thinking was... the reason I put B89 & Returns on an equal-level, is both are good films, and neither are perfect. To me TDK is perfect, unless you are so diehard for Burton's look, you just can't get into Nolan's. TDK is a cinematic masterpiece imo, not just a great Batman film.
As for Burton's, B89 is plagued by the issue of "too many hands in the cookie jar". It's 'less' of the vision Burton wanted. The script is solid, but the visuals are not to their fullest potential, and things like the Prince songs do not fit and are just distracting. Musically Prince made some good music for B89, yes, even the infamous Batdance, is a cool song. But they just don't fit. The scene where The Joker trashes the art gallery in order to meet Vicki, should've just had some kind of clown-ish circus music, no Prince. The downtown parade should've had circus music imo with The Joker running off with the megaphone like a sideshow carnie. That scene sticks out in my mind, because it felt like they drug it on and on, just for the song 'Trust' to fit in there.
But the script is great, and Nicholson and Keaton are amazing.
Which brings me to why Returns balances out with B89. The visuals are stunning in the film, and the performances are classic. DeVito's performance as The Penguin is criminally underrated. I would put it right up there with Nicholson-Joker & Ledger-Joker. Pfeiffer manages to create an absolutely stunning sexy & seductive, yet psychopathiacal Catwoman. I felt that scene where Bruce takes off the mask, and tries to save her soul, tries to save who he knows she can be. He was falling for 'the enemy' like the 'freak' he is. And just turned him away. Keaton didn't have to say anything. You could read it in his eyes, the hurt, which was a remarkable performance by him.
But the script is significantly weaker. The dialogue moves in favor of one-liners, The Penguin isn't up to anything as gastly as The Joker, the Penguin & Max-A-Million are just trying to get Penguin elected Mayor. It doesn't draw you in like Bruce & Vicki and Batman & Joker. The visuals are significantly better than B89, and the feel is much better than B89. But the script is lesser than B89. So that's why I feel they're an even-tie.
Oh and by the way, I totally forgot Returns was set at Christmas time. PERFECT time of year to watch it. Hearing Bruce & Alfred wish each other 'Merry Christmas' at the end, with the snow, and that old school Danny Elfman Bat-theme playing... I got chillbumps.
Merry Christmas everyone! *cue Batman theme* 
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Ugh, I just couldn't help myself. It kept bothering me, 'cause I hadn't seen it since it was in theaters.
Currently watching "Batman Forever", and frankly... i'm thinking about ending it all. I've just... i've lost all faith in humanity.
I can't BELIEVE that Tim Burton allowed his name to be put on this as 'producer'. Nothing in this film smacks of Burton, just of pure-camp 60's Batman done in the 90's. Thx Schmacher, you lightweight. This film is awful. And the amazing thing of it all is Schmacher apologized for Batman & Robin, for all the people that loved Batman Forever. If anyone loved Batman Forever, they deserve to be thrown into that vat of toxic waste like the Joker in B89. The amazing thing of it all is some people think this was the 'best' Batman of the old franchise, and 'certaintly' better than Returns. Let me tell you something, Returns is The Dark fucking Knight compared to Forever.
I guess the one saving grace I can let pass for Forever, is Jim Carrey - is a pretty damn good Riddler. He's an absolute nut, and in some ways I can see a bit of Ledger's Joker in him, or is it Carrey's Riddler? Take the campiness off of Carrey's Riddler and the campy clothes... he's perfect as the Riddler. The scary thing of it all - I think Carrey is just playing himself, lol.
Oh god, now the Gay Wonder is on. I couldn't even make it through the first 30 minutes. Not even the first 30 minutes. What blows me away, is I sat through the whole thing in the theater in 1995. I don't know how. I'm turning this trash off...
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The BATMAN Thread
I think heath is the best joker by far...but I also think, with all respect to him, his peformance borrowed the best bit's of Jack's 88 peformance and added to them. Heath took it a long way further, but at times his voice is so similar and elements of the way he plays it, all i'm saying is that it would have been a different TDK if the 89 film had never been made.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
I think heath is the best joker by far...but I also think, with all respect to him, his peformance borrowed the best bit's of Jack's 88 peformance and added to them. Heath took it a long way further, but at times his voice is so similar and elements of the way he plays it, all i'm saying is that it would have been a different TDK if the 89 film had never been made.
I disagree with that assertion. Ledger has said he wasn't trying to copy Nicholson. Nicholson's Joker isn't the only nutjob performance in history, you know. Ledger was far more influenced by Alex from A Clockwork Orange (which came out 18 years before Batman '89) than anything else. He was also influenced by the Sex Pistols. I would argue that Jack's performance in The Shining was more influential on Ledger than Jack's work in Batman.
Axlin08, I agree with you about the Prince music. Fucking pointless. The biggest reason I prefer B89 to BR is that it started it all for me as a Batman fan and it has the Joker. No offense to Penguin and Catwoman, but there's a reason the two biggest box office and cultural hits for the Batman series feature the Joker. He is hands down the best comic book villain ever created.
I just noticed this thread was given a sticky to the top of the forum. So I guess the Hollywood Boulevard has been turned into a Batman nerd hangout. 
:beer::mosh:
