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- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Those old Batman flicks are coming out on Blu Ray in April or May if I remember right. I'll be buying the first Burton one for sure.
Yeah, I'm getting B89 and Batman Returns. Both of them look like shit on my HDTV upconverted on DVD. I have the original DVD's that were released, flip discs with widescreen on one side and full screen on the other. So single layer widescreen versions, meaning they're around 4 gigs rather than fully taking advantage of DVD at 8 gigs with a dual layer disc. They did re-release them a few years ago on dual layer discs but I refused to pay that kind of money for the same format. Glad I waited since now they're coming to Blu-ray. Hopefully the transfers are top notch. 
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
tejastech08 wrote:Axlin08 wrote:TDK is the best, by far.
I disagree. I think it's a toss-up between B89, BB, and TDK. Batman Returns is the weakest of the bunch although I do love it. But that is the only one I'm willing to say is definitely weaker than the other 3. B89 is the reason I'm a Batman fan. I saw it as a 3 year old in the theater and have seen it probably over 1000 times in my life (grew up watching it pretty much every day on VHS). I love Nolan's movies, but they aren't perfect and neither are Burton's. But those three are the best and I really don't distinguish between them. Keaton was a better Batman than Bale. Bale is a better Wayne than Keaton. Ledger was definitely a much better Joker than Nicholson and I'm glad Nolan didn't kill off the character, which is one of Burton's biggest blunders in his two films. Nolan's biggest blunders would be the microwave emitter, sonar, and casting Katie Holmes.
HAHA.. the VHS was on HEAVY rotation in my room with me and my brother...
before cable.. i watched that movie twice a day... every day...
iit's the reason i know EVERY joker "line" in that whole movie by heart...
and-
you must remember from the vhs:
"You can't watch a warner brothers movie, without a warner brothers ball cap!"
"No! i said NECK TIES"
ha
Yes, the Bugs and Daffy commercial was great! And don't forget, the Diet Coke commercial with Alfred and Batman. I remember being disappointed as hell when I got the DVD and it didn't have those on there. They were just as much part of my childhood as the
movie itself. 
But luckily they are on YouTube! 
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Picked up the old OOP Batman '89 DVD used today. Great condition, only $6 bucks.
Re-watched it for the first time in years, fell in love with it all over again. Burton just did a fabulous job creating atmosphere. I still think Keaton is a better Batman AND Wayne than Bale, but Bale's right there in comparison. Nicholson was great, but I think Ledger walks away with it. I still think Nicholson did a darker take on Cesar Romero's Joker, whereas Ledger totally re-invented it. Batmobile is cooler in Burton's, music is better in Burton's, Gotham is better in Burton's, and the whole overall vibe is a good blend between dark & comic book.
As for Nolan's, I think the casting far surpasses Burton's, with the exception of Keaton. I'm going to rewatch Batman Returns (i've got an old VHS around here somewhere), but for the most part I remember the cast being good, i.e. Penguin & Catwoman. Caine is a better Alfred in Nolan's. The Morgan Freeman character adds depth. Eckhart is a FAR FAR FAR better Harvey Dent/Two-Face than either Billy Dee Williams or Tommy Lee Jones. Gary Oldman is a MUCH better Gordon. The Bat-toys are cooler in Nolan's, and the character development, and scripts are better pound-for-pound.
I think what Burton did best was "the look", "the feel", "the presentation of the whole thing". What Nolan does best is a straight-forward action flick. TDK is an 'epic' imo. Nolan's film draw more emotion out of the audience, more character development, well developed action sequences, and as a film, at times you forget you're watching a Batman film. If Batman was out of the equation, they'd still be great action films. The same can't be said for Burton's. But Burton's atmosphere spanks that of Nolan's.
Plus... does anyone else here FUCKING MISS that old Batman theme? That one from B89, Batman Returns & Batman: The Animated Series? God, that has to be one of the great instrumental pieces for film. Could you imagine that theme closing TDK? I would've weeped in the street, afterwards, screaming like a lunatic how great the ending was, just because of that music.
I've seen YouTube videos with Elfman's theme slapped on top of Batman Begins footage and it does NOT work. Zimmer and Howard's score works very well with BB and TDK. In fact, I love both of those scores just as much as I love B89 and BR's scores. I love them for different reasons though.
As for Bruce Wayne, I have big problems with how Burton portrayed the character. I do feel Keaton was a better Batman, but they completely fucked up the playboy aspect of Bruce. There are three sides to Bruce Wayne and Nolan nails all three. The only reason I consider Keaton's Batman better than Bale's is because of Bale's ridiculous voice as Batman. Otherwise, his level of intensity and physicality is a better adaptation of Batman than what is in Burton's movies. I do love Keaton's psychotic eyes and he has a very good voice as Batman, unlike Bale.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
yeah bale's batman voice grates on my nerves its so cheesy
It works very well in this scene from Batman Begins:
But for the most part it's annoying as hell. I understand what they were trying to do. If Batman existed in the real world and was such a famous person like Bruce Wayne, he would HAVE to alter his voice in order to hide his identity. But I think they took it too far in Nolan's movies.
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Axlin08 wrote:Picked up the old OOP Batman '89 DVD used today. Great condition, only $6 bucks.
Re-watched it for the first time in years, fell in love with it all over again. Burton just did a fabulous job creating atmosphere. I still think Keaton is a better Batman AND Wayne than Bale, but Bale's right there in comparison. Nicholson was great, but I think Ledger walks away with it. I still think Nicholson did a darker take on Cesar Romero's Joker, whereas Ledger totally re-invented it. Batmobile is cooler in Burton's, music is better in Burton's, Gotham is better in Burton's, and the whole overall vibe is a good blend between dark & comic book.
As for Nolan's, I think the casting far surpasses Burton's, with the exception of Keaton. I'm going to rewatch Batman Returns (i've got an old VHS around here somewhere), but for the most part I remember the cast being good, i.e. Penguin & Catwoman. Caine is a better Alfred in Nolan's. The Morgan Freeman character adds depth. Eckhart is a FAR FAR FAR better Harvey Dent/Two-Face than either Billy Dee Williams or Tommy Lee Jones. Gary Oldman is a MUCH better Gordon. The Bat-toys are cooler in Nolan's, and the character development, and scripts are better pound-for-pound.
I think what Burton did best was "the look", "the feel", "the presentation of the whole thing". What Nolan does best is a straight-forward action flick. TDK is an 'epic' imo. Nolan's film draw more emotion out of the audience, more character development, well developed action sequences, and as a film, at times you forget you're watching a Batman film. If Batman was out of the equation, they'd still be great action films. The same can't be said for Burton's. But Burton's atmosphere spanks that of Nolan's.
Plus... does anyone else here FUCKING MISS that old Batman theme? That one from B89, Batman Returns & Batman: The Animated Series? God, that has to be one of the great instrumental pieces for film. Could you imagine that theme closing TDK? I would've weeped in the street, afterwards, screaming like a lunatic how great the ending was, just because of that music.
I've seen YouTube videos with Elfman's theme slapped on top of Batman Begins footage and it does NOT work. Zimmer and Howard's score works very well with BB and TDK. In fact, I love both of those scores just as much as I love B89 and BR's scores. I love them for different reasons though.
As for Bruce Wayne, I have big problems with how Burton portrayed the character. I do feel Keaton was a better Batman, but they completely fucked up the playboy aspect of Bruce. There are three sides to Bruce Wayne and Nolan nails all three. The only reason I consider Keaton's Batman better than Bale's is because of Bale's ridiculous voice as Batman. Otherwise, his level of intensity and physicality is a better adaptation of Batman than what is in Burton's movies. I do love Keaton's psychotic eyes and he has a very good voice as Batman, unlike Bale.
See what I thought was Burton's masterstroke with Bruce Wayne was taking him from the playboy image, and turning him more into a borderline-psychotic loner, still obsessed with the death of his parents. They also brought him down to earth, as he was not into the rich lifestyle, and was more human than the people around him.
It never worked for me how Bruce Wayne could be this hero of truth and justice at night as Batman, then suddenly became a self-absorbed, superficial playboy as Bruce Wayne. I guess it's the mark of someone with two identities, two personalities, but it just never worked for me. Burton's Bruce Wayne showed a hesistation, that was played very well by Keaton. Bale's is closer to the original Batman-mythology, if that's what you care for. Nolan did a good job at that, I just prefer Burton's.
Keaton also balanced it all very well.
As for Bale, he's great as Batman AND Bruce Wayne. Maybe not Keaton, but he's very very good, and certaintly miles ahead of Kilmer & Clooney.
I think Bale's problem, is when he becomes Batman, he tries too hard to be Kevin Conroy. Way too hard. He's trying to do what Conroy became a master at, with the Batman voice. It'd be like Heath Ledger trying to imitate Mark Hamill, which he didn't do. Bale needs to just do his own thing with Batman's voice, like Keaton did, and from what i'm seeing he's trying to play his own version of Bruce Wayne, but when it comes to Batman, he's trying to force it to be like Conroy, and that's why it comes across as over the top at times.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
He doesn't have 2 personalities. He has 3. There's the real Bruce Wayne, Batman (also a real side of his personality), and the fake playboy Bruce Wayne. The third one is entirely a facade to hide his true personality. The real Bruce and Batman are very similar personalities, the only difference being that the real Bruce is more restrained than Batman. But he is not an aloof playboy. He merely puts that on to make people think he's completely incapable of being Batman. Here's where I think Burton's portrayal of Bruce falls down. In order for such a rich and famous person to operate as Batman, he can't be viewed as a weirdo by the public. Well Burton portrayed him as a very socially awkward guy. It is true that Bruce Wayne is fucked up in the head, so Burton definitely understood what it would take for someone to be Batman. But in order for him to get away with it without anyone knowing, he'd have to be one hell of an actor and be able to disguise to the public how much of a weirdo he is. That is why I prefer Nolan's version of Bruce.
As for Ledger's voice, there's one scene where he does one hell of a Hamill impersonation. It's the scene where he's talking about having the citizens kill Coleman Reese or he'll blow up a hospital. The part where he says, "I don't want Mr. Reese spoiling everything but why should I have all the fun?" sounds EERILY similar to Hamill's Joker voice. I thought it was pretty cool that they threw a nod to his version of the voice into the movie. Most of the time, Ledger's voice is so all over the place it's hard to tell what he sounds like. It's a fascinating performance. Sometimes he sounds like an old timey gangster from the 1930's movies and sometimes he sounds like a playful clown.
And I don't really think Bale is trying to copy Conroy. Bale said very explicitly that he wanted to portray Batman in a very animalistic way. That includes the growling voice. From day one, that is the portrayal he gave in his screentests and he said he was worried they would think he was crazy for portraying it like that, but apparently Nolan liked it. Conroy had a very nice change from his Batman voice to his Bruce voice. I wouldn't call his Batman voice animalistic though. It's just a deep voice. Definitely the best there ever was or will be in the Batman/Bruce voice department. I wish they were still making that cartoon to be quite honest.
Re: The BATMAN Thread
tejastech08.... if it wasn't for THAT scene.. i would agree with you guys...
that scene where he interrogates flass is the essence of batman.. using fear...
keaton didn't really have to change his voice because a. that bruce wayne was a loner and pretty much outta the spotlight and b. batman in the burton films was pretty much a mute... using implied fear, rather than outright scaring the shit outta people.. and when he did talk, it was a mumble/whisper....
sure the voice is annoying, but it could have been MUCH worse.....
