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Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
The new Slash album inspired me to dust off my copy of Chinese Democracy as well as the two Velvet Revolver albums last week. I hadn't listened to any of them in ages.
I think listening to it so far removed from all of the drama has made me appreciate it more in a sense, but my opinion on it hasn't changed too much. I appreciate Shackler's more than I did and it's now one of my favorite tracks. On the other hand I like If the World a lot less than I did although it was never one of my favorites.
As for the demos vs the final album, I think I now prefer the album to the demos although the album version of Catcher is an abomination and I cringe every time I hear that track. The demo with Brian May is far superior.
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
just for the record, my post had nothing to do with demos vs album
just strictly my state of mind
I think had GNR blew the roof off the VMA's, released a single the next day and all that.. it would've been a much bigger hit than what it turned out being.
however, i don't think anyone can argue that The blues demo and Catcher were million times better
and i also think Better was much stronger on the demos
Bucket's guitar was just amazing during the Chorus plus u didn't have the Pitman super mario bros fart sounds over the most kickass riff on the album.
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
I don't think it's a stretch for monk to say that the final studio versions are the best. I would say the same.
But there are parts. I think the final version of Chinese Democracy blows anything out of the water that came before. Ron's added work and Frank's drums give that song the balls it needed for years as it toiled as a B-side rocker, before becoming an album opener that could be put alongside Jungle & Civil War in it's predecessors.
Shackler's Revenge... as amazing as Ron's work on that guitar solo is, I think we can all agree that we didn't need Ron Thal re-recording Bucket's WRITTEN solo. Not only did he write it, but he's a better guitar player. No offense Ron.
Better... this is a song that underwent so many changes it's not even funny. I try to put out of my mind all of the versions before, and this strange love affair for the 2006 demo, as the final version sounds ace to me. I think the overdoing came from Chris' excessive synth tweaks. The outro sounds like a technical glitch, not something that adds to the song.
Street of Dreams... another song that suffered way too many tweaks. That 2002 live version was the original version of the song, i'm sure, and it was far better, and tighter as a song with the guitars. The studio version seems to try and compete with all of the grandiosity of Catcher, TWAT & This I Love... Street was NEVER those songs, so it's studio version seems like going one too many times to the well.
TWAT is a song that is PERFECT in it's final form. The song exists at it's best in that form. A true shining achievement of that studio album. The added synth, simply brings it home, not bury it.
Catcher is the one that stands out where a demo owned the ass of the studio version. Brian May's work was perfect for the album, and I don't know what in the fuck Axl was reading, but May's work on the '99 demo was always revered in the fanbase. I don't know if it was his people that "didn't show it much love" or Brian himself. I dunno. Either way, the retooling by Ron, doesn't 'take away' from the song at all. It's too strong for that. But it doesn't really add to it, and the original '99 demo is more memorable, and I don't think it's because it was my or everyone else's "first exposure" to the song... it just is what it is. 99 > 08.
Riad will always suck. Jimi Hendrix soloing in that song, won't save it from being a B-side on a Buckethead "demos" album.
This I Love... we all know Robin's the weak link, with that tacked on guitar solo.
So as far as nit-picking goes, and yes i'm nit picking, the originals and/or demos vs. what came to be, can be a mixed bag. In some cases, the better. In others, not so much. But taking CD as a 2008 studio album from GN'R, knowing nothing that came before... it's an awesome album.
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
My problem with CD (the song) is that Ron's guitar doesn't fit and it's covering up Tommy's killer Bass. Like I've said before, any problem I have with Ron on the album has more to do with Axl. I think Ron adds a lot to the band, and I would rather hear him playing on songs he's written than playing to someone elses. He and Bucket's styles are vastly different. I'd even go as far as to say he and Robin didn't compliment each other the way Robin and Bucket did. DJ might be a better match for him.
And I like what Ron brought to Catcher. It's just too crowded with other stuff. The problem isn't Ron. He sounds ace, imo.
Plus, you have like 5-6 different guys playing guitar on any given song. That's ridiculous. Have the 3 guys in the band play on the album.
Except for all the "Ohhs" and more cluttered guitar, I really dig Riad.
The record version of TWAT sounds great because its mixed. But there were elements of the 99 and 02 version that are way better. It's still one of my favorite GNR songs ever.
The Blues is just sad. It's not terrible, but again, Ron sounds out of place. Robin played a similar guitar line in the live version that was much more subtle and flowed better.
This I Love... we all know Robin's the weak link, with that tacked on guitar solo.
WTF? Robin and the orchestrations are the best part of that song. The rest of the song makes me think the Phantom Of the Opera is going to pop out any second.
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
The orchestrations are the shining achievement of TIL. Axl brings that November Rain vocals to it. That's what makes the song amazing.
The guitar solo sticks out like a sore thumb, and covers up an amazing orchestra... beautiful in fact. But it doesn't kill the greatness of the song however.
- dr_love6977
- Rep: 38
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
This I Love... we all know Robin's the weak link, with that tacked on guitar solo.
I just died a little bit.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
Catcher is the one that stands out where a demo owned the ass of the studio version. Brian May's work was perfect for the album, and I don't know what in the fuck Axl was reading, but May's work on the '99 demo was always revered in the fanbase. I don't know if it was his people that "didn't show it much love" or Brian himself. I dunno. Either way, the retooling by Ron, doesn't 'take away' from the song at all. It's too strong for that. But it doesn't really add to it, and the original '99 demo is more memorable, and I don't think it's because it was my or everyone else's "first exposure" to the song... it just is what it is. 99 > 08.
Bingo. I will go one step further. Not only was May's work perfect for the album, it was one of the best solos ever recorded for any GN'R song. Too bad Axl fucked it up by dropping May's work from the final version. Talk about a Homer Simpson "Doh" moment. 
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
Reading this thread reminds me of something Lars Ullrich said in the "Some Kind Of Monster"-documentary, the bit where he talks about his passion for art/paintings. Went something like: "When is a piece of art done? Why didn't the artist put more black up in this corner? When is a song done?"
It's one of the downfalls of modern digital recording and distrubution of music. If you're a hardcore fan, you sometimes have access to early demos of songs. And with todays fancy recording equipment, even a demo will sound really fucking great!
In GNR's case, they got new members into the band before the album was out and/or done. For me it's understandble that they would want to see what these members could bring to this and that song.
At the end of the day, it is their/Axl's art and it's not done until they feel it's done. If that means that Ron replaces Brian May on Catcher OR they really need a few more weeks to add Bach's harmony vocals on Sorry because Axl heard him sing it while taking a shit (or whatever it was...) OR they ad the "liquid-drops"-effect in Prostitute OR any other background noise you can only hear with a good soundsystem etc etc, so be it...
Axl: "The art comes first"
Re: Just listened to Chinese Democracy again...
I just don't buy that he had to put everyone on the album. I understand putting the guys that are in the band on the album, but not on top of the old guys stuff! If anything the demos showed us this strange insecurity where a song has to be worked and tinkered to death and crammed with as much ideas and noise as possible before releasing it. Even the bad cut and paste jobs have me scratching my head.
With that said, I do think the CD we got is the perfect album for this era of GNR and a perfect statement of the entire CD saga.
For the record, the demos sounded great because they WERE fucking great. You could actually hear everything the band members brought to the table. It wasn't a sonic overload.
