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Re: The Most Self-Indulgent Albums EVER!
The Most Self-Indulgent Albums EVER!
Posted Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:54am PST
by Shawn Amos in GetBackWe are in the midst of two album landmarks: the 40th anniversary of the self-titled Beatles double LP known as The White Album and the release of Guns N' Roses' 17-years-in-the-making Chinese Democracy. When someone suggested that perhaps the two-disc White Album was a bit self-indulgent and would have been tighter as a single disc, Paul McCartney famously replied, "It’s the bloody Beatles White Album. Shut up." 'Nuff said.
Chinese Democracy, however, is another story. Even though it's only one disc, it's about as self-indulgent as you can get: millions of dollars spent, hundreds of musicians used, and arrangements so dense that only Axl can understand them.
Self-indulgence is a rock rite of passage for many musicians. Every generation has a bunch of artists who decide to make an album (or two or three) that's nearly indecipherable to anyone except the band and their followers. These records have one or more of the following hallmarks:
1. Lyrics with lots of medieval words, such as tempest, screed, manor, shire, cloister, parchment, and pilgrimage.
2. Songs that run more than ten minutes on at least half the album.
3. Covers that look like a Harry Potter book or a Dungeons and Dragons game.
4. Packaging that includes two or three discs.
5. Tracks that feature at least one keyboard solo.
Beyond these characteristics, there's just the vibe of a self-indulgent album. It reeks of self-importance and humorlessness. There's no sense of irony, humility, or humanity. Ultimately lifeless, these projects feel more like musical dissertations than real rock ’n’ roll. The White Album is full of playfulness, humor, heart, and soul. The ones listed below? Not so much.
Here are the five most self-indulgent albums in recent memory. I'm refraining from hitting the easy targets, like ELP's Tarkus, Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans, and the Moody Blues' Days of Future Passed. In fact, I'm avoiding all of the late-'60s/early '70s rock album output. Been there, done that. Here's the new self-indulgence.
Smashing Pumpkins - MACHINA/The Machines of God
Billy Corgan has made a career out of indulging himself musically. This album includes songs with titles like "The Crying Tree of Mercury" and such lyrics as "Into the flow of encrypted movement/Slapback kills the ancient remnants." As if this wasn't enough, Corgan followed up MACHINA with his first solo album, TheFutureEmbrace.Styx - Kilroy Was Here
From the band that brought us The Grand Illusion and Paradise Theater comes this 1983 concept-album about robots replacing man. The centerpiece? "Mr. Roboto," a song almost too unintentionally funny to be self-indulgent. Almost.Dream Theater - Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes From a Memory
Dream Theater has the perfect prog-rock pedigree: former students at Berklee College of Music, they spent their early years covering Iron Maiden and Rush tunes, and first named their band Majesty. Any of their albums is worthy of this list, but Scenes From a Memory contains nearly all of the self-indulgent hallmarks.Queensrÿche - Operation: Mindcrime
Yeah, I know people put this album in the pantheon of Pink Floyd's The Wall and the Who's Tommy. I know it's a considered a metal masterpiece. Still, I'll take Racer X over Dr. X any day. Especially when he's played by Ronnie James Dio.
Sting - Songs from the Labyrinth
Some would argue that Sting's entire life is an exercise in self-indulgence. This album of 17th-century lute music might prove them right.Self-indulgence is a rock rite of passage for many musicians. Every generation has a bunch of artists who decide to make an album (or two or three) that's nearly indecipherable to anyone except the band and their followers. Here is our FlipBook of some of the worst offenders.
GUNS 'N ROSES, Use Your Illusion I & II (1991) and Chinese Democracy (2008)
STYX: Paradise Theater (1981)
YES: Tales from Topographic Oceans (1974)
GENESIS: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
PETE TOWNSHEND: Lifehouse (2000)
JETHRO TULL: Thick as a Brick (1972)
THE MOODY BLUES: Days of Future Passed (1967)
PINK FLOYD: Atom Heart Mother (1970)
KING CRIMSON: In the Wake of Poseidon (1970)
MOS DEF: The New Danger (2004)
Re: The Most Self-Indulgent Albums EVER!
I never understood why the Illusions were tagged overblown and self indulgent. Some things were a bit OTT imo, like 2 Dont Crys, the quotes at the end of Breakdown but overall they are both very good rock albums. They seem to unfairly have a bad reputation.
I like the long songs, mabye its just me, but I couldnt care less how long a song is, if its good.
I listen to classical music and cant imagine any composer being constrained to a set time, purely because of peer pressure.
I dont think they are over produced either, they might sound that way compared to Appetite, but compared to albums from other bands in my collection, Illusions dont sound anything special.
I think Spaghetti Incident is a very well produced album, better than any other in the GNR catalogue.
Re: The Most Self-Indulgent Albums EVER!
I think the reason the UYI albums get pegged that Olorin, is because GN'R went from being this cut down, raw, street, rock n' roll band, to making these very produced Queen/Zeppelin-type albums.
That was quite a jump. Axl continued it further with Democracy. I think that's where the comparison comes in.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: The Most Self-Indulgent Albums EVER!
Eh. I actually enjoy a fair number of albums on that list. Sometimes indulgence is very gratifying.
Re: The Most Self-Indulgent Albums EVER!
You'd think folk would have got over the change in direction by now.
I can understand people saying it when they first came out, but its 2008. People in the media are still calling the Illusions over produced, and thats hardly an accrurate observation.
And what people call self indulgence, is that really a bad thing? Like Killingvector says, it can be very gratifying.
I think the Estranged video is a better example of GNR over pruducing something and taking their indulgences a bit too far.
- estrangedpaul
- Rep: 5
Re: The Most Self-Indulgent Albums EVER!
1. Lyrics with lots of medieval words, such as tempest, screed, manor, shire, cloister, parchment, and pilgrimage.
2. Songs that run more than ten minutes on at least half the album.
3. Covers that look like a Harry Potter book or a Dungeons and Dragons game.
4. Packaging that includes two or three discs.
5. Tracks that feature at least one keyboard solo.
Hehe, I know this is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but none of GNR's albums have any of this stuff, well unless you count Illusion as two discs on one packaging.
He seems to make a distinction between the White Album and the others - I'm not sure why the White Albumalways escapes any critisism of pretentiousness - the Beatles get away with anything because they are sacred. Paul McCartney's quote could just as easily apply to Guns N' Roses.
I agree that some of Chinese Democracy is a little two over done, especially Catcher In The Rye, but in the case of the Illusions, people forget they are full of straightforward rock songs that are as good as anything on Appetite. They seem to think November Rain and Estranged sum up the whole album.
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