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- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: Paul Tobias/Mank Rage
Here's a link to Mank Rage's myspace page. While the lead singer may have issues singing and writing melodies, P Huge lays down some decent work--which may surprise some, as many fan-sites insisted he could not play. For instance, the guitar riff on Retro, actually has Chilli Peppers/janes addiction feel. Really, a few of these riffs on various songs could serve as a foundation for a nice rock song with someone able to write melodies over them. I am wondering, as many have insisted (Billy Howerdel, Josh Freese, Sean Beaven, Chis Vrenna, A&R folks, etc,) that the 1998/99 album had major potential if completed. I think Ezrin told them they had 3 songs ca. 98/99, and wanted them to work on a few new ones--if they could have got 3 or four more good songs together by 2000, they would have had a hit record!
Re: Paul Tobias/Mank Rage
cool stuff thanks for posting this...actually we have a section dedicated to paul...
http://www.gnrevolution.com/bandm.php?id=3401
well in truth there are sections dediciated to every member past and present and each includes a discography, a bio and a pic thread for each one
if you go to the right side of the board you will see pull down menus for GNR songs, GNR in the year and GNR Biographies
the staff went though painstaking measures to compile all that info including album artwork and track lists and its far from complete
in the history sections sic has compiled and written a history of every year from 1999 onwards and it includes some obscure info from obscure articles from every year when anyone gets a chance please browse it all 
Re: Paul Tobias/Mank Rage
the lead singer may have issues singing and writing melodies
That's actually Dave Lank, the co-writer of Don't Damn Me from Axl's and Izzy's Lafayette posse.
a few of these riffs on various songs could serve as a foundation for a nice rock song with someone able to write melodies over them.
It's interesting you should say that, because that was Axl's original intention when he brought Paul onboard. Basically, he wanted someone who could effectively replace Izzy, and since Paul was from the same Lafayette stock as Izzy and Axl, he was, theoretically, the best man out there. His background and musical history might've resembled Izzy well enough for Axl to think he would've had the chops to come aboard and maintain the specific mix that they'd so far used to write songs.
I am wondering, as many have insisted (Billy Howerdel, Josh Freese, Sean Beaven, Chis Vrenna, A&R folks, etc,) that the 1998/99 album had major potential if completed.
They were completing songs by then.
Various bits and pieces that would later be compiled in Pro Tools from ground up like the DJ Shadow record were mainly recorded in 95-97, with Paul, Robin and Dizzy. They had most of the basic song structures of what we've been hearing completed with Sean Beavan in 98/99.
00/01 saw the music re-recorded and produced in a more classic rock fashion with Roy Thomas Baker. At that point, they also wrote new songs with Bucket, Brain and Pitman. Therefore, the 98/99 album would've lacked the Bucket solos, the heavier presence of synths and would've sounded grittier than anything heard since. Beavan has a tendency to pull all stops with his rockers, while the ballads may sound thread-bare.
My guess is, it would've been a very brutal, honest album, with Axl screaming his hatred and anxiety towards the music industry, former band members and lost loves. It's hard to say how it would've managed when set against NIN's The Fragile which came out just at the same time. Axl and the band would've had the songwriting props to take on the critics, but the sound would've dated quite rapidly and there would've been no-one to properly replace Slash.
It would've been a controversial album, no question. It's nature could've been such that people would've either loved or hated it. It would've been a definite step down in terms of mass appeal and Axl would've had to win a lot of crowds over by providing a solid live band, which I think the lineup could've well been. Based on what I've heard and read, the album at the time certainly reflected Axl's state of mind at the time; the red-headed stepchild of the industry reaching puberty; feeling stranded yet ready to take on an uphill battle, no matter the cost.
from 1999 onwards
1993, in fact. 
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: Paul Tobias/Mank Rage
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:the lead singer may have issues singing and writing melodies
That's actually Dave Lank, the co-writer of Don't Damn Me from Axl's and Izzy's Lafayette posse.
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:a few of these riffs on various songs could serve as a foundation for a nice rock song with someone able to write melodies over them.
It's interesting you should say that, because that was Axl's original intention when he brought Paul onboard. Basically, he wanted someone who could effectively replace Izzy, and since Paul was from the same Lafayette stock as Izzy and Axl, he was, theoretically, the best man out there. His background and musical history might've resembled Izzy well enough for Axl to think he would've had the chops to come aboard and maintain the specific mix that they'd so far used to write songs.
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:I am wondering, as many have insisted (Billy Howerdel, Josh Freese, Sean Beaven, Chis Vrenna, A&R folks, etc,) that the 1998/99 album had major potential if completed.
They were completing songs by then.
Various bits and pieces that would later be compiled in Pro Tools from ground up like the DJ Shadow record were mainly recorded in 95-97, with Paul, Robin and Dizzy. They had most of the basic song structures of what we've been hearing completed with Sean Beavan in 98/99.
00/01 saw the music re-recorded and produced in a more classic rock fashion with Roy Thomas Ba
ker. At that point, they also wrote new songs with Bucket, Brain and Pitman. Therefore, the 98/99 album would've lacked the Bucket solos, the heavier presence of synths and would've sounded grittier than anything heard since. Beavan has a tendency to pull all stops with his rockers, while the ballads may sound thread-bare.
My guess is, it would've been a very brutal, honest album, with Axl screaming his hatred and anxiety towards the music industry, former band members and lost loves. It's hard to say how it would've managed when set against NIN's The Fragile which came out just at the same time. Axl and the band would've had the songwriting props to take on the critics, but the sound would've dated quite rapidly and there would've been no-one to properly replace Slash.
It would've been a controversial album, no question. It's nature could've been such that people would've either loved or hated it. It would've been a definite step down in terms of mass appeal and Axl would've had to win a lot of crowds over by providing a solid live band, which I think the lineup could've well been. Based on what I've heard and read, the album at the time certainly reflected Axl's state of mind at the time; the red-headed stepchild of the industry reaching puberty; feeling stranded yet ready to take on an uphill battle, no matter the cost.
Neemo wrote:from 1999 onwards
1993, in fact.
Well Billy Howerdel (A Perfect Circle, Ashes Divide) was working during the 96-98 phase. I was surprised to read recently one of Geffen/Universal's A&R people (cannot remember his name--Geffen A&R working on the project 96-98) insinuate that Bill Howerdel was actually playing on the songs (not a bad thing obviously), and not just engineering. I would have love to see Stinson, Reed, Tobias, Finck, Howerdel, Freese, and Pitman live! In fact, the A&R guy said the material was great, and would have been a very relevant album if it had been released.
Re: Paul Tobias/Mank Rage
The A&R man was James Barber, and yes, he did insinuate the things you just said.
I understand Howerdel worked with the band in '98-00.
Re: Paul Tobias/Mank Rage
Well Billy Howerdel (A Perfect Circle, Ashes Divide) was working during the 96-98 phase. I was surprised to read recently one of Geffen/Universal's A&R people (cannot remember his name--Geffen A&R working on the project 96-98) insinuate that Bill Howerdel was actually playing on the songs (not a bad thing obviously), and not just engineering. I would have love to see Stinson, Reed, Tobias, Finck, Howerdel, Freese, and Pitman live! In fact, the A&R guy said the material was great, and would have been a very relevant album if it had been released.
pitman didnt come into the fold until 2000, before that there was a guy by the name of stuart white who did the synth on OMG
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: Paul Tobias/Mank Rage
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:Well Billy Howerdel (A Perfect Circle, Ashes Divide) was working during the 96-98 phase. I was surprised to read recently one of Geffen/Universal's A&R people (cannot remember his name--Geffen A&R working on the project 96-98) insinuate that Bill Howerdel was actually playing on the songs (not a bad thing obviously), and not just engineering. I would have love to see Stinson, Reed, Tobias, Finck, Howerdel, Freese, and Pitman live! In fact, the A&R guy said the material was great, and would have been a very relevant album if it had been released.
pitman didnt come into the fold until 2000, before that there was a guy by the name of stuart white who did the synth on OMG
I have always been curious if Stuart White and Gary Sinshine both are Billy Howerdel? Or, is there confirmation they are real people, and not pseudonyms?
