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- AgesOfTheIce
- Rep: 10
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
I swear that I'm not making this to be a confrontational or hostile post, so I apologize if it comes off this way. I'm just observing that people seem to believe certain things solely on Tommy's account. Such as:
1.The idea that the label held up CD rather than Axl. It seems that this is based on a 2011 interview with Tommy (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and he's expanded upon this after his departure). Any member of the new band was going to say it wasn't Axl's fault when asked why CD took so long to release, hell even Slash and Duff walk around on eggshells when asked anything about Axl these days. Sure, the label may have suggested a different production approach (probably also wanted more commercially accessible songs) a couple of times. It does not make sense to me to believe that the label literally blocked the release from 1998-2008 and that Axl had nothing to do with it. People always bring up Bob Ezrin, but he was brought in by Axl, not the label, and had no authority to block a release.
2.That there are 22 completed unreleased CD era songs. Apparently Tommy said this in an interview a while back. This seems implausible to me. Ron said he worked on a "handful" of songs that didn't make it onto CD. Which to me sounds like around 5-6 tracks, coincidently the same amount Slash implies he's worked on. If Axl has 22 completed songs in the can, why the hell would he be messing around with Silkworms and a new version of OMG? Why the hell only give Slash and Duff six songs to revamp in the seven years since the reunion? In 1996 Slash and Duff said they had completed 8 songs, which were almost certainly instrumentals since they later said Axl never recorded anything. Isn't it possible Tommy was referring to songs of this nature?
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
Ron and Brain both said they worked on over 30 songs each . Tommy said 22 not released plus 14 released is 36. How many songs are on the locker cd’s?
Do the math. Tommy was a member through all the sessions from 98 to 08.
And I don’t believe anything Slash says.
- AgesOfTheIce
- Rep: 10
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
Ron and Brain both said they worked on over 30 songs each . Tommy said 22 not released plus 14 released is 36. How many songs are on the locker cd’s?
Do the math. Tommy was a member through all the sessions from 98 to 08.
And I don’t believe anything Slash says.
Why does this necessarily mean the songs have Axl vocals laid down as opposed to just being completed instrumentals?
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
We don’t know the answer to that. But, to say Tommy and Brain are essentially lying is ludicrous. Any and all objective evidence shows them having at least 30 or more songs that were worked on for at least 2 albums.
As for holding up Chinese, it is well known that the label held it up in early 2000’s. Evidence points to Axl holding it up around 2006 forward. Of course, Tommy is going to back Axl. Axl was good to Tommy and Tommy has said that on multiple occasions. You can bet your ass that Duff backs him too.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
I believe a lot of these things are perspective.
Record labels are ruthless commercial entities. Artists are reactionary emotional types. Both want to exploit the other on some level.
It's easy for that kinda shit to go bad.
So in theory if Axl asks for something extreme next year and the label says no - should we blame Axl for being over the top or the label for being cheap? What if Axl then says its that or nothing? What if the label says it's their way or nothing? When things get ugly it can be hard to work out who is really blocking what. It's probably failures to compromise on both sides.
As for the songs I see the point that it's always the same suspects that seem to leak/beworked on/be remixed etc. But then again...maybe Axl is just doing stuff in some type of order. Who knows. There's a few people involved who said there's significant material left, so i suspect there is quite a bit. What state of progress it is at who knows - and what genres etc.
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
Nothing has ever been completed in Axl’s world, lyrics, guitar parts, needs this needs that. Outside of Appetite, he has always complained about something. It’s his insecure nature likely related to childhood abuse. He was a desperate young buck artist who wanted AFD out in order to make some money and survive.
Just my two cents…
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
Tommy's comments 2009-11 were a revelation. As to why believe him.... because when you place them into the overall story...it all fits. The saga finally made a lick of sense....the delays, the rejections, RTB, Bucket bailing, etc.
Why believe there's 22 songs? Because it makes sense.....that's one more album and a few B sides or an EP.
The Village Sessions of 2000 also back it up. The first album is essentially done and the second was in its infancy af that point. Likely finished in 2001-02....a few more sessions and bam....there it is.
As to why so much time was wasted and it rots in a vault and hoarders computers....it's because they don't care anymore and hasn't cared for a very long time.
In the past 15 years....Axl has mentioned new music a grand total of 3 times.
Does that sound like someone itching to release music? Just because he no longer cares doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
I'm just sick of the excuses. He stopped giving excuses....it's the people around him and the fans that keep it going.
He's not a perfectionist....never was....and he's not hard at work on his so called "second half of Chinese". That doesn't even exist anymore. The material itself exists but the album itself does not.
I'd wager he hasn't actually touched that material himself in at least a decade.... probably longer.
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
Tommy wanted the album out in early 2000’s….Zutuat and even Axl by most accounts. As soon as Bucket finished his stuff on the core tracks, it should have been released. It didn’t need the Bucket Brain tracks or even Better. The ones we have those locker full vocals on are the album.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Why do people tend to take Tommy's word for everything?
It does not make sense to me to believe that the label literally blocked the release from 1998-2008 and that Axl had nothing to do with it.
Why not? It's happened plenty of times before:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/music … age-labels
