WWF/WWE

mitchejw

I thought I'd do this forum section a service by attempting to start a discussion on something more light hearted.

WWF/WWE as it's called now has been sizzling and fizzling within pop culture for most if not all of our lives. Whether you enjoy it or you don't...there's no denying how big it has gotten, and at times, how it has faded into obscurity.

I bring this up because the McMahon family and higher up executives within the company have been purging millions of stock shares over recent weeks. Many have speculated that they might be getting ready to sell. I don't see that ever happening but I do still wonder why they would need to unload so many shares of the company that they are in charge of...I digress...

This leade me to another point...in 2019, the McMahon family and WWE were making more than they have ever made while delivering what might be the worst product they've ever delivered. WWE programming ratings have been terrible and getting worse for years. It is ironic to me that the most successful financial period of WWE has been in recent years when their product has been the least marketable.

Vince has a long history of business savvy...but I have been questioning for years whether he is really all that creative. During the 80s, 90s and early 2000s...Vince took or stole talent from other organizations because he could pay them more...not just a little more...a lot more.

When it all started in the early 80s...Vince was very hands off with the wrestling side of the business. The wrestlers created most of their character and content. As the years have passed, Vince has grown to micro-manager nearly every aspect of the business to the point that talent is reading off cue cards and storylines are manufactured and contrived out of nothing based on Vince's opinion of what is creative.

At the end of the day, in 2020, in his 70s, Vince is micro-managing the product you see on TV each week. Whether it be him, or him through others. Either Vince had it and lost it...or he never had it and mostly relied on the creativity of others to shine through.

How does a company doing so poorly do so financially well at the same time?

PaSnow

Interesting, I didn't realize they were at their 'most profitable' in recent years. I'd guess it was just a mix of right time/right place, and riding the coattails of previous fame & TV contracts.

For instance, cable TV is fading away, yet TV channels LOVE live tv, because it means higher ratings versus content like dramas people are willing to watch on demand on Hulu etc. So TV channels overpaid WWE, yet Vince could ask that amount, due to past glory of people like Cena & Lesnar who are no longer around, so the new crop of stars get paid less too. Plus with the great economy, Vince charged a premium to TV channels, paid low salaries, and TV channels paid high amounts in a good economy for live TV with a (past) following. Kinda like signing an aging athlete in the final years of his career. you'll overpay.

I don't watch it, really haven't since 2000ish, but I think you're right its too fake & scripted. Previously you just had guys create characters in their bedroom and the 'script' was likely devised among the two of them at the bar. 80s WWF, WCW/NWO concept. It was just Hall & Nash ad libing it, but it was great. Now its too cheesy, like a Vegas produced circus no one is interested in the characters anymore. Too overdone.

Ashame about XFL tho, I was curious about its potential & gave it an honest watch once or twice. They did do some things better, kickoffs were a far better idea, and the 1, 2 or 3 point conversion probably should be ocnsidered by the NFL.

mitchejw

PaSnow wrote:

Interesting, I didn't realize they were at their 'most profitable' in recent years. I'd guess it was just a mix of right time/right place, and riding the coattails of previous fame & TV contracts.
For instance, cable TV is fading away, yet TV channels LOVE live tv, because it means higher ratings versus content like dramas people are willing to watch on demand on Hulu etc. So TV channels overpaid WWE, yet Vince could ask that amount, due to past glory of people like Cena & Lesnar who are no longer around, so the new crop of stars get paid less too. Plus with the great economy, Vince charged a premium to TV channels, paid low salaries, and TV channels paid high amounts in a good economy for live TV with a (past) following. Kinda like signing an aging athlete in the final years of his career. you'll overpay.

I don't watch it, really haven't since 2000ish, but I think you're right its too fake & scripted. Previously you just had guys create characters in their bedroom and the 'script' was likely devised among the two of them at the bar. 80s WWF, WCW/NWO concept. It was just Hall & Nash ad libing it, but it was great. Now its too cheesy, like a Vegas produced circus no one is interested in the characters anymore. Too overdone.

Ashame about XFL tho, I was curious about its potential & gave it an honest watch once or twice. They did do some things better, kickoffs were a far better idea, and the 1, 2 or 3 point conversion probably should be ocnsidered by the NFL.

There are a few interesting things about Vince McMahon that I've learned lately due to podcasts by other legends from the industry in 80s, 90s, and 00s.

Vince is a peculiar guy. Privately, he hates wrestling. He really doesn't care for the fans. He's got this disdain for southerners. He was born and raised in South Carolina and hates South Carolinians. He's a lot like Trump in that way.

It's the reason it's called WWE now...World Wrestling Entertainment...

At the most recent Wrestlemania...he didn't even have matches. They were cheesy, made for TV movies fight scenes that lasted 10 minutes in barns or streets or driveways. It was awful. Granted they were dealing with Corona...but his idea for getting around that was that they have 'matches' that were more like movies with dialogue. Cheesy catch phrases and even cheesier scenes. Undertaker buried someone literally with a shovel and dirt. The final scene was his opponents hand reaching out of the ground stiff and implying dead. The rest of the body was buried.

Nothing matters anymore and the characters are a generic and cheesy as a piece of white bread with no butter. There are no story lines anymore and it's impossible to understand what's happening or why it's happening. Things are changed on a moments notice or on a whim. It's directionless. Even well into his 70s, Vince insists on being more and more in control of everything.

slashsfro

Lot of stuff I want to say here. I'll defend the Undertaker's wrestlemania match from this past April. In his case, he really shouldn't STILL be wrestling, so the cheesy cinematic match worked fine in his case and shouldn't be really criticized.

McMahon isn't really business savvy in fact he's somewhat of a shady crook. They just outlasted WCW which had horrible management and had no idea what to do, even when they were beating WWE. Oh, on the XFL thing, when it folded the league made a huge payment to WWE while stiffing the rest of the people, like Oliver Luck (Andrew's dad), who is now suing WWE on wrongful termination grounds.

They are profitable this year due to the Saudi deal, that's one of the big factors. They don't care that the Saudis are a morally bankrupt goverment, as long as they pay out.

Yeah, Vince wants to get out of the pigeonhole of the wrestling guy. Which is why he attempted to get into movies and other things. But at the end of the day he is still a carny.

The matches today suck...which is kind of ironic since the athletic talent level has been higher than it's ever been. But their matches are all the same. WWE would be better off if Vince DIDN'T still so much time into the creative level of the shows. He's still a workaholic (to his credit) but I wonder how many great ideas over the years that have been vetoed by him.

mitchejw

slashsfro wrote:

Lot of stuff I want to say here. I'll defend the Undertaker's wrestlemania match from this past April. In his case, he really shouldn't STILL be wrestling, so the cheesy cinematic match worked fine in his case and shouldn't be really criticized.
McMahon isn't really business savvy in fact he's somewhat of a shady crook. They just outlasted WCW which had horrible management and had no idea what to do, even when they were beating WWE. Oh, on the XFL thing, when it folded the league made a huge payment to WWE while stiffing the rest of the people, like Oliver Luck (Andrew's dad), who is now suing WWE on wrongful termination grounds.
They are profitable this year due to the Saudi deal, that's one of the big factors. They don't care that the Saudis are a morally bankrupt goverment, as long as they pay out.
Yeah, Vince wants to get out of the pigeonhole of the wrestling guy. Which is why he attempted to get into movies and other things. But at the end of the day he is still a carny.
The matches today suck...which is kind of ironic since the athletic talent level has been higher than it's ever been. But their matches are all the same. WWE would be better off if Vince DIDN'T still so much time into the creative level of the shows. He's still a workaholic (to his credit) but I wonder how many great ideas over the years that have been vetoed by him.

I mean yeah...taker gets a pass but i didn’t need that match and I’ll never watch it again...i found myself laughing out loud numerous times.

How sad is it that he’s apparently so ashamed of his own work that he’ll spend his golden years Not enjoying the fruits of his labor.

Appreciate the insights on why WWE is profitable this year. Wasn’t sure on the exact reasons.

Agree with pretty much everything you say here.

TheSundanceKid

I haven’t watched wrestling in ages 2006?

And I enjoyed it as a kid and teenager.

Then you get into adulthood and I guess it changes.

I did watch this Wrestlemania and holy hell was it garbage. Undertaker match was terrible. If you can’t wrestle anymore don’t.

Watching Raw in that shitty performance centre in Orlando is annoying. It’s like you people can’t afford a bigger centre?

If Jerry Lawler was still on I’d watch. Just to hear him. But yes like part time right?

I think Vince is smart and creative. But, what stifles the product is the overproduction and cues, and more micromanagement.

Re: WWF/WWE

Re: WWF/WWE

Re: WWF/WWE

Re: WWF/WWE

Re: WWF/WWE

Re: WWF/WWE

Board footer