You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
surely the science only shows that orginisms that operate like the kind we know and us can't live there. But what if creatures could evolve that thrived on conditions that are toxic to us. Much as a fish lives in conditions that drown me.
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
surely the science only shows that orginisms that operate like the kind we know and us can't live there. But what if creatures could evolve that thrived on conditions that are toxic to us. Much as a fish lives in conditions that drown me.
Thats why no one can claim the place is "sterile" until we have fully investigated the planet. If life exists there, there is no telling what it is or how it evolved.
If some catastrophe happened there generations ago, how do we know there's not a few survivors living underground? We wont know until we go there. Flowing water under the terrain? Wont know until we go there. Organisms living in the ice? Wont know until we go there. An organism that thrives in its dust storms? Wont know until we go there.
When a manned mission takes place, they should take Flagg with them and when they land on the ice caps, he can immediately take a bite of that "sterile" ice.:haha:
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
JonathanvonDoom wrote:Oooh, being such an X-Files fan I can already tell I'm gonna love this thread. Thanks for posting those, James. "Smoking gun" is damn right. Man, that pic sort of creeps me out, to be honest. Don't worry, I'll have something worthwhile to contribute when I'm not so groggy.
By the way, Randall Flagg, you wouldn't happen to be a fan of Howard Chaykin's American Flagg! graphic novels, would you? I sure am. I'm co-writing a script right now called Burning Flagg where I've even named the main character Eddie Flagg. Just, it's an interesting spelling if you didn't take it from the same source.
Ah, I've never read any of his Dark Tower stuff.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
We're both right regarding that. They're seasonal, but the caps do bypass the liquid state....
Mars has ice caps on both its north and south poles. The ice caps are made of water ice and carbon dioxide ice (dry ice). There are two kinds of ice caps on Mars: seasonal ice caps and residual ice caps. Seasonal ice caps accumulate during the winter season, and evaporate during the summer. The residual caps remain during the entire year.
Martian North Polar Cap. NASA/JPL.Mars seasonal ice caps are entirely dry ice that is about 1 meter thick. The southern seasonal cap measures about 4000 km across when its largest during southern winter, and the northern cap measures about 3000 km across at its largest, during northern winter. When summer temperatures rise above 150K (-120 C), the ice sublimes (passes directly from the solid state into the gaseous state, bypassing the liquid state) into the atmosphere. Large seasonal changes in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere cause large seasonal changes, up to 30% different, in the atmospheric pressure on Mars.
No James, I was right. Liquid water doesn't on exist the surface of Mars. Dry Ice and the frozen water beneath it doesn't equal water. We cleanse are medical instruments by submitting them to the conditions of mars.
It's obvious that some of you aren't read on planetary systems and atmospheric conditions. I suggest you spend some time on them rather than suggest science fiction. I'm not saying life can't exist somewhere on mars, or didn't live on the surface on the past. But life can not exist on the surface of Mars at this time. Just as life can't exist on the surface of an asteroid floating in space.
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
First you say you're not saying life can't exist there, and then you say it cant. Did you run John Kerry's campaign in 04?
No one knows whether life can exist there or not. All life can't be based on what we know here. Scientists theorize that life may exist in some form on Titan, and the conditions there are terrible. Completely different than Mars, but it shows the possibilities of life living in hostile environments. Hell, Sagan even brought up the possibility of life forms living in the storms on Jupiter.
In my opinion, the only places in the solar system that can be completely ruled out as having life are the Moon, Mercury, and those tiny moons( really asteroids) orbiting Mars.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
First you say you're not saying life can't exist there, and then you say it cant. Did you run John Kerry's campaign in 04?
No one knows whether life can exist there or not. All life can't be based on what we know here. Scientists theorize that life may exist in some form on Titan, and the conditions there are terrible. Completely different than Mars, but it shows the possibilities of life living in hostile environments. Hell, Sagan even brought up the possibility of life forms living in the storms on Jupiter.
In my opinion, the only places in the solar system that can be completely ruled out as having life are the Moon, Mercury, and those tiny moons( really asteroids) orbiting Mars.
And why do you rule those out? Ice is believed to exist on the moon in craters as well. The answer should be the same reason why mars is ruled out.
The reason Titan is possibly hopitable to life is because of the methane oceans below the Solid Ice surface. Said ice protects the ocean from solar rays as well as the methane oceans themselves being possible conducive to life.
There is a pattern being developed here. I have never said that life can't exist at all on Mars. Simply that life can not currently live on the surface of Mars. It is entirely possible that life may exist below the surface. In fact, in all observations on the possibilty of life on Mars, living under the surface is what is suggested.
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
Well, the Moon isn't likely to have any life. Possible microbes in a small puddle of ice? Sure. If it does exist there, then it exists everywhere in that form with Venus being the exception(cant rule life out there completely, but you can regarding ice).
Mercury is just way too extreme to have life. Hotter than hell one day, and then the next absolute zero. There's the possibility of a bit of ice in the pole region, but we don't even have to go to Mercury to establish that. Just go to the moon. If life is in the bit of ice on the moon, then obviously Mercury becomes a very interesting place.
The Mars moons aren't even really moons. Just asteroids that got caught in its orbit. If life is on those two small pieces of rock, its everywhere.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
Female Figure on Mars Just a Rock
By Benjamin Radford
LiveScience's Bad Science Columnist
posted: 24 January 2008
03:22 pm ET
The idea that there may be life on Mars has been around for centuries, but the theory got a dubious boost from recently released photos of the surface of Mars (taken by the NASA robot Spirit) apparently showing a human-like figure. Several Internet sites have glommed onto the image and suggested the figure could be alive.
But what is it? Just a rock, astronomers say.
It's hard enough to accurately recognize figures and faces across the room. Mars, depending on when you measure it, is about 35 million miles away. The best telescopes aren't of much help in determining surface features, and that's why NASA sent robots with cameras to Mars.
The reason many people see a figure on the Martian landscape is the same reason that people see faces in clouds, Rorschach blots, and coffee stains. This phenomenon, called pareidolia, is well known in psychology, and it is the cause of many supposedly mysterious and miraculous events (including the famous "Jesus in the Tortilla"). Examples are all around us; in fact if you have a New Hampshire state quarter, you have pareidolia in your pocket or purse (take a look).
Strong evidence for this psychological explanation lies in the fact that the Spirit image does not look like Martian life (since we don't know what life on Mars looks like), but instead resembles life here on Earth, specifically human life. The image is the result of human interpretation. If you look around the full image of the area (not just the close-up), you will find several rocks and features that resemble non-human Earth life, such as armadillos and snakes. In the right bottom corner, emerging from the sand, there is what looks like a lizard face wearing goggles and an airman's helmet.
This is of course not the first time that NASA images have been claimed to show evidence of Martian life. A man named Richard Hoagland claimed that 1976 photographs of the Cydonia region of Mars showed a human-like face and was clear evidence of aliens.
According to astronomer Phil Plait of the Bad Astronomy Web site, if the image really is of a man on Mars, he's awfully small: "Talk about a tempest in a teacup!" Plait said. "The rock on Mars is actually just a few inches high and a few yards from the camera. A few million years of Martian winds sculpted it into an odd shape, which happens to look like, well, a Bigfoot! It's just our natural tendency to see familiar shapes in random objects."
Even though logic and science suggest that the image is of a rock and not an animal, UFO buffs and conspiracy theorists will continue to speculate.
In fact, it will actually be pretty easy to determine whether or not the image is of alien life. In later photographs of the area, either the same shape will be there or it won't. If it is, it's a rock (unless, of course, little Martian men can hold the same pose for weeks or months at a time).
This is exactly how the "Face on Mars" was eventually disproven. On April 5, 1998, the Mars Global Surveyor took photographs of the same region in far higher resolution than was possible in 1976. The new images clearly showed an area heavily eroded, and that the "face" was simply the result of low image quality, pareidolia, and tricks of light and shadow. Hoagland's theory was discredited.
Just don't tell that to the creepy, goggle-wearing Martian sand lizard
Re: Life on Mars?? Starting to look that way...
time to rehash this thread.
NASA confirms water on Mars
Until now, the evidence for ice has been circumstantial
By Alicia Chang
The Associated Press
updated 7:29 p.m. ET, Thurs., July. 31, 2008
LOS ANGELES - The Phoenix spacecraft has tasted Martian water for the first time, scientists reported Thursday.
By melting icy soil in one of its lab instruments, the robot confirmed the presence of frozen water lurking below the Martian permafrost. Until now, evidence of ice in Mars' north pole region has been largely circumstantial.
In 2002, the orbiting Odyssey spacecraft spied what looked like a reservoir of buried ice. After Phoenix arrived, it found what looked like ice in a hard patch underneath its landing site and changes in a trench indicated some ice had turned to gas when exposed to the sun.
Scientists popped open champagne when they received confirmation Wednesday that the soil contained ice.
"We've now finally touched it and tasted it," William Boynton of the University of Arizona said during a news conference in Tucson on Thursday. "From my standpoint, it tastes very fine."
Phoenix landed on Mars on May 25 on a three-month hunt to determine if it could support life. It is conducting experiments to learn whether the ice ever melted in the red planet's history that could have led to a more hospitable environment. It is also searching for the elusive organic-based compounds essential for simple life forms to emerge.
The ice confirmation earlier this week was accidental. After two failed attempts to deliver ice-rich soil to one of Phoenix's eight lab ovens, researchers decided to collect pure soil instead. Surprisingly, the sample was mixed with a little bit of ice, said Boynton, who heads the oven instrument.
Researchers were able to prove the soil had ice in it because it melted in the oven at 32 degrees Fahrenheit (0 Celsius) '” the melting point of ice '” and released water molecules. Plans called for baking the soil at even higher temperatures next week to sniff for carbon-based compounds.
The latest scientific finding is the first piece of good news for a mission that has been dogged by difficulties in recent weeks.
An electrical short on one of Phoenix's test ovens threatened the instrument, but scientists said the problem has not recurred. The lander, which spent the past several weeks drilling into the hard ice, also had trouble delivering ice shavings into an oven until the success this week.
NASA said Phoenix has achieved minimum success thus far. The space agency on Thursday announced that it would extend the mission for an extra two months until the end of September, adding $2 million more to the $420 million price tag, said Michael Meyer, Mars chief scientist at NASA headquarters.
Unlike the twin rovers roaming near the Martian equator, Phoenix's lifetime cannot be extended much more because it likely won't have enough power to survive the Martian winter.
The science team also released a color panorama of Phoenix's landing site using more than 400 images taken by Phoenix. The view "was painstakingly stitched together," said Mark Lemmon of Texas A&M University, who headed the effort.
The portrait revealed a Martian surface that was coated with dust and dotted with rocks.
© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
