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Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
"I don't know any more than you do," Slash says of Chinese Democracy. "There's only a couple of songs with vocals on it -- I know that for a fact. But it will come out one of these days."
-RS, 06/17/04
To be fair, I think the above is a bit unfair on Slash. The wording suggests he could've meant either
- knowing for a fact there are at least a few songs with vocals (the ones performed live in '02)
- knowing for a fact there are only a couple of songs with vocals, at all
Up until the 2005 IRS leak into public (as a lo-fi recording of radio show by one certain Eddie Trunk), this pretty much summed up the outlook on the sessions. IRS was, bitterly, piled up to the same stack, and it wasn't until the early 2006 leaks (2003 mixes of Better, TWAT, IRS & Catcher '99) before this argument was effectively put to bed.
Looking back, the 2006 leaks filled a void and everybody seemed to have confidence in the album again. Had it come out in November, it would've easily sold the 2008 numbers and then some. What really ruined the album for the rest of us were the AntiQuiet leaks by Kevin "Skwerl" Cogill.
But what if the AntiQuiet leaks were the ultimate faux pas, tying up to a powerplay conducted, among others, by GNR's then-manager Irving Azoff and some execs at Universal?
Not suggesting that it's so, obviously. All I can say is, when put underneath scrutiny, one does wonder how an ex-Universal employee got a slap on the wrist for leaking nine out of fourteen tracks out of a deep-in-the-red studio album five months before the ultimate release.
FBI agents raided Cogill’s home [on August 26th, 2008], and [at the time, he pleaded not] guilty to uploading nine pre-release songs to his Antiquiet site from the 14-track Chinese Democracy album [on June 18th]. ... The best advice he got was from his Los Angeles lawyer, Kaloyanides.
“He told me,” Cogill said, “‘to shut my fucking mouth and don’t say shit to the feds.’” But Kaloyanides was retained too late, after Cogill spilled the beans and handed over his laptop. ... He said he did not inform the authorities where he got [the songs], although he said they asked.
Laptops such as this represent vested interests to Universal. Not only does it give you access to the tracks, you can get web history, e-mail discussions, and overall damning evidence of the source, if you get lucky.
While working at Universal, I encountered an exec who had heard a bunch of the songs. When I asked him flat out if it was any good, he solemnly lowered his eyes and tone, and said, “Seriously? It’s some of the best fucking music I’ve ever heard in my life.”
- AntiQuiet, 06/06/08
[In November, Cogill] pleaded guilty to uploading nine pre-release songs to his Antiquiet site from the 14-track Chinese Democracy album. ...The charges were subsequently reduced to a one-year maximum, misdemeanor copyright-infringement charge, which did not require proof that Chinese Democracy was going to be released.
In April, the second biggest possible headline related to Chinese Democracy appeared on every music newswire in existence: The album has been finished and delivered by Axl to Geffen. So what’s the hold-up? Well, Axl is negotiating with the label on how to release it.
- AntiQuiet, 06/06/08
The album’s slow production is significant insofar as copyright infringement law is concerned. ... With the album in production for a decade and a half, ... that would have required prosecutors to prove that [Cogill] had distributed pre-release, commercial material over the internet.
Hey, their defense is stonking, Axl and Geffen would spent an infinite amount of time on how to release and market the material. Are the Feds really eating this all up?
(Los Angeles federal prosecutor Craig) Missakian said “internal discussions,” which he declined to disclose, paved the way for the government to agree to reducing the charges on the plea agreement. ... Other likely factors for the reduced charge, Kaloyanides said, was that some of the tracks had leaked in England 15 months before and it “might have been an intentional leak from somebody on the inside.”
Anyone remember was the Portugese Cabal involved in them?
... “That was one of our positions that there was never any indication [Chinese Democracy] was coming out anytime soon,” said Cogill’s attorney, David Kaloyanides, in a Wednesday telephone interview.
On the grounds that CD would not be released any time soon, Cogill made a plea deal on the uploads to reduce his sentece - just 11 days before the commercial release date. Another fine moment in the history of civil courts.
Leading up to the entire incident, Cogill had already blogged up a rather suspectible entry, particularly in how it well it correlates with CD's actual release:
Go nuts on the packaging if you want Axl, but please don’t subject us to some drawn-out hype ramp-up to a release date months down the line. You already have our attention and we’ve been waiting long enough. Geffen, do yourself a favor, don’t waste another day or another million bucks on promotion this album just doesn’t need. When this album drops, everyone will hear about it. And the more you dick around with the details, the more likely the album is to leak on the internet, spoiling whatever big plans you’re cooking up anyway.
- AntiQuiet, 06/06/08
And if you look at the above sideways, it could just as well have been said by a disgruntled Universal exec, perhaps the one who was praising the material to Cogill back in the day.
I always said that the more that Axl and Geffen jerked around trying to figure out how to release this finally finished album that we’ve all been waiting over 13 years for, the greater the chances would be that it would slip out of a pressing plant or office somewhere and wind up in the hands of some asshole with a blog.
- Kevin Cogill, 06/18/08
Cogill got no time after agreeing to do an RIAA public service announcement that would scare future file sharers straight. ... "Due to various elements of this case (not to mention unnecessarily high production costs), we chose not to produce one," [an RIAA response] e-mail said.
And the Skwerl case was still in session after CD had been released. Yet no-one could be arsed to prosecute him on a sure-fire case to prematurely leak material meant for a commercial release.
But let's roll back.
Cogill made a plea towards Axl and Geffen in early June, leaked the tracks in mid-June and got the Feds on his door in late August. What else happened then?
Exclusive Leaks
The leaks, as well as the well-publicized arrest, coincided with an apparently critical period in the album release negotiations. Apparently, Azoff had requested a competing offer from Wal-Mart, a retail chain with which he'd made a 1-year exclusive distribution deal for The Eagles' comeback album Long Road out of Eden in 2007.
"According to sources, negotiations are underway for "Chinese Democracy" to come out as an exclusive at one of the big boxes - either Wal-Mart or Best Buy. Negotiations are also ongoing to have conventional record company distribution, another source says." (Billboard, 08/15/08)
"The current intended release date for Chinese Democracy is November 25, 2008. It is Azoff's strong preference that the release be done through Best Buy and not Wal-Mart. [...] I was also told that the story was leaked by Azoff to put pressure on Best Buy to up their offer and close the deal. (Mister Saint-Laurent, 08/19/08)
"A source tells Rolling Stone that a November release date has been selected in case the [GNR] decides to put [the album] out." (Rolling Stone, 08/28/08)
"A little birdie told me the deal with Best Buy is done. All that's left to do is sign the contract." (Bob Lefsetz, 08/31/08)
"I hear that the deal with Best Buy is 99% done. The plan is for Best Buy to have an exclusive on Chinese Democracy, which will be released the Tuesday before Thanksgiving [namely, 11/25/08]." (Mack Arillo, 09/01/08)
All this a few days following the arrest of Kevin Skewrl.
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
polluxlm wrote:Also, only what would become the complete album leaked, nothing else. Indicating the leaks had something to do with the album itself and weren't just random security slips.
I'm inclined to believe somebody on the inside leaked it to both hurry up the release and perhaps also to hurt the sales. If we what we hear about Azoff is true, his plan all along was to tank CD to induce a reunion from Axl. If Universal cut Axl off from funding back in 04 they'd probably write the album expenses off as a loss, meaning they are not going to take any big risks with it after.
That could also explain why Axl feels he's getting no support from the label. They see trying to prop this band up as a huge risk. It's preferable to just cash in on a reunion. The longer they give him the cold shoulder, the more likely he is to cave in (or so they think).
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
i believe it was an inside thing but neither the label nor axl had anything to gain from leaking it.
I have always had my suspicions about team brazil being suspect, with being so close to axl and the forever reluctance by him to get it done
although it seems like there is some evidence it wasn't axl, alone, that held back the release
azoff leaking it was also an interesting possibility to me.
cd's failure certainly was the most likely way to get axl to do the reunion.
and either way, releasing it (forced or not) had to come first in order for axl to be open to it emotionally.
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
I always thought some of the leaks came intentionally from the Lebeis' in an effort to get Axl off his ass and finish the album. Maybe it was so he would have a sense of urgency to finsh the abum and get out on tour and make more dollars before the whole thng leaked.
Maybe it was just so he could see the hopefully positive reaction that fans have to the leaks and therefore regain his confidence and his mojo.
Or maybe it was just to create a buzz and some more interest to sell a few more tickets for another albumless tour that was needed again to refill the coffers.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
The fucked up booklet makes me think the label leaked it to pressure axl into approving it.
Interesting....Axl's non-responce to the official release, no-promo etc could also be seen as his reaction to the label screwing him....he couldn't do anything about it once it's leaked but he was sure able to shut down the added profit they'd get from him participating in the process.
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
I always thought some of the leaks came intentionally from the Lebeis' in an effort to get Axl off his ass and finish the album. Maybe it was so he would have a sense of urgency to finsh the abum and get out on tour and make more dollars before the whole thng leaked.
I could never see Team Brazil having done that. They didn't really bother him after he took forever to try to get the album done, so I don't see a reason why they would try in 2008. They would risk getting fired or having their infleunce severly reduced. He's their money ticket whether or not he would have released CD. So no point fucking that up.
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
Well for Axl to have made another dollar above what he got from the BB deal they would have had to shift all the units that Best Buy agreed to take in the exclusive first. Only after that would Axl and Uni start to make another dollar. Early on that looked like it was never gonna happen.
Axl was obviously pissed with the label no doubt, but I'm guessing he then decided he would do nothing until after the exclusive was up, then maybe do a little promo, the better video, some alternate versions/ remixes of Better etc, with the hope of moving a few more units that by that time would directly go to his bottom line. For some reason tho he Seemed to shelve that idea too at the last minute.
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
Aussie wrote:I always thought some of the leaks came intentionally from the Lebeis' in an effort to get Axl off his ass and finish the album. Maybe it was so he would have a sense of urgency to finsh the abum and get out on tour and make more dollars before the whole thng leaked.
I could never see Team Brazil having done that. They didn't really bother him after he took forever to try to get the album done, so I don't see a reason why they would try in 2008. They would risk getting fired or having their infleunce severly reduced. He's their money ticket whether or not he would have released CD. So no point fucking that up.
Not if the money was drying up. For a while there was rumors about cash flow issues, band members not getting paid etc.
Re: The AntiQuiet Mystery
This thread is older than Moses but I'm bored.
It's pretty obvious Skwerl and the leaks were used as a bargaining chip to secure the Best Buy funds.
Skwerl's first blog post was June 6th 2008 and the leaks were posted June 18th 2008, a grand total of 12 days later. If you take into account human nature, it's doubtful someone would so quickly pass along the goods unless they had a hard-on to shoot their wad. It's too neat.
The 2006 negotiations failed to finish because the album wasn't "ready". The only way you have access to these files is if you're Andy Wallace, GNR, at Axl's party in 2006, or the record company. No interns or guitar techs or DJs or public venues. So either Skwerl's source "Steve" sits on the Wallace mixes for 2 years or "Steve" was the buffer between Skwerl and whoever actually wanted to songs public. Gin up a little plausible deniability and voila. Game on. The files were even transcoded (and labelled!) to WAV so no one could look for the digital fingerprints.
We know executives were playing the thing for magazines in 2007 (RTB's), the negotiations with Best Buy started circa November 2007, the album was finally officially done as of November 2007, Azoff joined in March 2008, and negotiations were at a standstill.
The leaks escalated the release and reinvigorated fan interest. Shit or get off the pot, Axl and Best Buy.
(Incidentally Prostitute, If The World, and Riad, all located on the 2006 setlist were chosen for the job.)
The real mystery to me is the true completed number of songs.
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