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- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Martin is himself a feminist and product of the Vietnam era. The difference between the books and the show, the books are subtle and have depth. Sexuality is present and Cersei has learned to wield it, but it's not as overt as in the show. Margaery's sexual prowess is completely ambiguous and if you weren't paying close attention, you'd might miss Renly and Loras were lovers. The show lets these traits define the characters and uses nudity as a cheap thrill.
To your point, in the book the strong female types are present, but they're recognized for their out of place presence in medieval society. The struggle Arya faced in season 1 is a great example of this.
The show wants to resonate with modern trends and topics, so that's why Loras is imprisoned in the show for being gay while in the books he's a member of the kings guard and great warrior. His desire to have sex with men isn't a defining feature for him, whereas that's all his character is on the show - his sexuality.
In the books Sansa never returns to Winterfell and certainly doesn't marry Ramsay. That misfortune falls to her friend who is passed off as a fake Arya. The rape and brutality in the show don't begin to rival the book.
Martin is trying to portray an accurate portrayal of what life was like for all people and classes during this era. Women were perceived as property, but modern audiences don't want that realism. They dont want to see a woman be controlled by a man, so Brienne beats the hound, Arya heals like wolverine, Dany can threaten to burn innocent children, Sansa stamps her feet demanding attention and offers no advice, and it's all cheered as Girl power.
No rhyme or reason why, just have our female characters end up ahead without any consideration to the plot. Which is a shame, as the book has some very cool scenes they could borrow from to show strong women with complex stories, and they don't. Arianne Martell was stripped from the show, and she's very interesting.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Flagg and Monkey bringing some heat to the show. I agree we are too top heavy with female badasses.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Enjoyed it last night, not sure it was the 'best episode ever' as is being widely claimed but it was good.
I actually really enjoyed the Mereen section. Was it me or was there some sexual tension between Dany and Yara? Maybe it was me 
The battle for Winterfell was good although in some ways lacked the punch of Blackwater or Castle Black. Possibly due to the numerous stories being told the build up feels that much more rushed.
Also am I the only one who was fairly none plussed by the Sansa rape scene from season 5? It's always mentioned as some graphic horrible thing they shouldn't have shown but I didn't think it was particularly graphic. Felt like outrage for the sake of outrage to me.
I felt for Sansa that LF and the knights of the Vale were a contingency plan. Not signs of underhand scheming or villainous foreshadowing. More of an insurance policy. She felt Jon was underestimating Ramsey despite her warnings so she sent for her plan B.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Sansa outrage from book readers, was that they completely abandoned her book plot to put her in a rape storyline for shock value. The story of what goes on at Winterfell in the books is Theon's story. Anyway I think scrolling back to earlier in the thread, you'll remember why so I'll just leave you with this;
A few episodes later she's undyed her hair and back in Winterfell waiting to be married to Ramsay.
In the books, Littlefinger convinces her to woo Harry the Heir (not included in the show). Harry is who would inherit the vale if Robert had an accident (you can see the idea).
At that point Sansa could reveal her identity and have the vale (this would be a step towards reclaiming Winterfell).
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
I enjoyed it too. Sure it was stupid, took huge leaps of logic & was eye rollingly dumb in places, but at the end of it all i thought it was good fun tv.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Surprised there isn't more outrage over Rickon's fate, but considering it's been all over the internet for the last year...
Anyone notice how Sansa smiled when she was side by side with Littlefinger, despite just seeing Rickon getting killed and probably thinking Jon is dead?
That's not foreshadowing, it's just inconsistently. Just like her ridding off just before Ramsay mentions his Hounds.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Enjoyed it last night, not sure it was the 'best episode ever' as is being widely claimed but it was good.
I actually really enjoyed the Mereen section. Was it me or was there some sexual tension between Dany and Yara? Maybe it was me
The battle for Winterfell was good although in some ways lacked the punch of Blackwater or Castle Black. Possibly due to the numerous stories being told the build up feels that much more rushed.
Also am I the only one who was fairly none plussed by the Sansa rape scene from season 5? It's always mentioned as some graphic horrible thing they shouldn't have shown but I didn't think it was particularly graphic. Felt like outrage for the sake of outrage to me.
I felt for Sansa that LF and the knights of the Vale were a contingency plan. Not signs of underhand scheming or villainous foreshadowing. More of an insurance policy. She felt Jon was underestimating Ramsey despite her warnings so she sent for her plan B.
I'm pretty bored with Dany, tbh.
I agree with Randall and Monkey. The writing is way on the nose. I will say, when you're left with writing a 55-58 page script and you need to insert pivotal characters, I don't see replacing Sansa with a character that's not even in the series to give her more screen time and added character depth/arc as that off the wall, and the outrage over the rape is a little overdone. Even Martin has talked about the challenge of getting the characters to intersect at various points in certain situations, so that also falls on the show writers who are working on a much limited scale, limited universe, limited time and space than the freedom Martin has in his books, that you have to make do. The writing is hit or miss and I'm not overly impressed with the execution, but for what it is, I like the show. Dorne is a glaring example at the limitations of the writers, though. I think they dropped the ball with Tyrion this season, also. And proof Martin is really needed. The writers aren't good enough to write his character on their own. Mel either.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Was that a rushed episode or what? We all know Hollywood is ignorant of battle mechanics, but that whole killing off your own cavalry just so Ramsey can have his Longshanks moment was taking it too far. The stacking of bodies was like something out of a cartoon. First that would never happen, and it would take a lot more than a battle with about 10.000 men to get that high.
What actually happened story wise was good I suppose, but the action was simply crap.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Holy shit! She said much of the same things I did!! Haha, that was spot on!!
