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Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
It's pretty cool looking back at things, such as the gnarled hand that wakes Jon out of the dream when he's fighting the others with a flaming sword. But the Dragon glass Ghost found was wrapped in an old night's watch cloak. I always assumed it was just some old night's watch brother. Now, I think that cloak had to be Blood Ravens.
If Jon is meant for Dany, it took balls to write Val's character. I dig her a million times more than Dany.
Mance is a badass in the books.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
It's pretty cool looking back at things, such as the gnarled hand that wakes Jon out of the dream when he's fighting the others with a flaming sword. But the Dragon glass Ghost found was wrapped in an old night's watch cloak. I always assumed it was just some old night's watch brother. Now, I think that cloak had to be Blood Ravens.
If Jon is meant for Dany, it took balls to write Val's character. I dig her a million times more than Dany.
Mance is a badass in the books.
You think Jon was on track to be romantic with Val? He took her son from her, so I’d be surprised to see that happen. It’s the same reason I don’t know if Mance is truly on Jon’s side. If Tormund can get the wildlings south of the wall, they’d be in a good position to approach the winner between Ramsay and Stannis.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Well, it was really Dalla's kid, and she's bonded with Gillys baby (monster), and it's clear there's an attraction. She was always watching him from that tower, she kissed his cheek, which was unusual for a wildling. When she told him he was welcome to try and bed her, if he wanted to be gelded, and Tormund basically said that was her flirting with him.
Yeah, unlike the show, Tormund had over a hundred giants as well. But Mance and Tormund both should know it would be a slaughter to go after Stannis again or Ramsay. You think Ramsay murdered Little Walder to spur on an attack of Stannis?
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Shit, you're right. I forgot it was her sister that had the kid.
Maybe. I'm trying to reconcile what the show did with what position the characters are in. I think Roose is too smart in the books to be betrayed like that by Ramsay, and Ramsay too stupid to concoct any kind of real plan. Doesn't Roose have Ramsay surrounded by people keeping him informed on Ramsay's every move? Unlike the show, if Roose dies, why would the northern lords and Frey's stay loyal to Ramsay if Roose gets knifed? I think this is why Martin is so late with the books. He knows what has to happen, but he's struggling to get the characters to these points without being completely retarded like they did in the show.
I also don't think Jon and Dany will hookup in the book. I think that's going to be Aegon and Dany.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
I think she's going to kill Aegon. He seems like a little shit. It'll be interesting to see what happens in Dorne, because Dany looks to be a long ways off from returning to Westeros. He's already there and taken Storms End. The Greyjoy bros are already waiting for her, so there's no telling what will happen there. Aegon will most likely have to fight Tommen's army first. Not to mention Stannis. If Jon is ressurected, he'll most likely have a wildling army with Giants with him.
By the time Dany arrives there will most likely be a big war already in progress, and there's no way she just contends herself with being Aegon's wife. Plus, Tyrion will root around to find out who he really is.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Hmm, you really dislike Aegon? I can’t say I’m a fan, but he didn’t irritate me like he seems to have irritated you. I think he has the potential to be a great king and will probably ride Viseryion (Fire and Blood makes it clear dragons can’t/won’t fly beyond the wall, so I don’t think we’ll get the retarded wight capture nonsense).
I think he’s a Blackfyre, so I’m expecting Blood Raven to do some shit to end that. But I think with Dorne and the Stormlands united, I could see the Vale making a move with Sansa trying to marry Aegon. Little finger has no friends in the North, and with the Bolton’s and Frey’s controlling the the North and the Riverlands, her usefulness is better served trying to ally with Aegon. With winter coming, travel in the North is going to be impossible. I don’t know how they’ll have a major battle there with armies from the south.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
I never considered Sansa marrying Aegon. Yeah, I think Tyrion kind of exposed him as a poor leader with poor instincts. If he takes a dragon that would send Dany over the edge. His claim would be better than hers. That's if Euron doesn't take a dragon first. Asha has a part to play also, I just don't know what that is yet.
I still think Aegon is the mummers dragon and is a threat. He is Varys grand plan for power.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Here's an old Martin interview I thought was interesting. This is from 2011.
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?
Well, I guess. Yes. That’s how I took it. The way it was written, it sounded like he was mortally wounded — and, you know, it’s you!
Well. I’m not going to address whether he’s dead or not. But as to why — didn’t you think the text established why they would want to assassinate him?
The narrative made perfect sense. Looking back through the books, all the decisions Jon’s made, and all the foreshadowing that was there, yes, you played fair. At the same time, it was devastating and I suspect fans will howl, the most since–
The most since the Red Wedding, I suspect.
How long have you intended for that incident to happen?
For many years. Some of the stuff about Melisandre warning Jon of “daggers in the dark” was written 10 years ago.
It’s a harsh chapter in terms of fan expectations. You go from this total high of Jon giving this rousing speech about going after the evil Ramsay Bolton, to this utter low of his men turning against him. So fans are not supposed to draw that conclusion he’s dead?
What I’m seeing from early reactions, admittedly just a handful, I think fans are going to split and argue about it until the next book comes out.
I also wasn’t sure whether Ramsay was telling the truth in his letter when he said the battle had already been fought and won, whether we were supposed to take that as gospel.
My readers should know better than to take anything as gospel, unless they see it for themselves, and even then I do sometimes use “unreliable narrator.” No. They should not take that as the truth. What about Mance Rayder, did you think he was really dead?
Yes. And I liked the reveal that he’s the bard in Ramsay’s court at Winterfell, but I was so dense I didn’t realize it was him until I read Ramsay’s letter near the end.
Aside from the fact Mance goes south and says he’s going to take six spearwives, there’s a legend that Jon hears from Ygritte about Bale the Bard who was a King of the North who posed as a bard and infiltrated Winterfell. Mance is calling himself “Abel” which is “Bael” with the letters moved around. It’s amazing what people pick up on and what they don’t. The whole controversy over Renly and Loras, [viewers saying] “HBO made these characters gay!”
It was always firmly hinted
And many got that, but many didn’t. I’m still getting letters about it. They were oblivious when they read the books and [producers] made it explicit.
The one thing I must confess to being frustrated by is the first Tyion chapter where you set up this expectation that he’s going to meet Dany, and I got excited. Then about 600 pages later I’m realizing, “OK, that’s not gonna happen, at least not in this book.”
Yeah, it’s the “kind of bring ’em together but don’t give them the confirmation.” In some ways it’s not so different than the sexual tension in TV shows — are Catherine and Vincent [on Beauty and the Beast] finally going to kiss? Same philosophy. This is the kind of stuff I wrestle with. I could have ended the next chapter: Tyrion gets off the boat and there’s Dany. But the journey itself has its own interest.
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Does anyone have any idea what Varys plan was with Dany and Viserys? Why protect them only to sell her to Drogo under the guise of raising an army to take Weseros, while planning to put Aegon on the iron throne the whole time? What was the point? They didn't seem to respect Viserys so why protect him? They didn't want him to go with Dany but he insisted. I'm not seeing the logic.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: HBO's A Game of Thrones
Get Viserys to attack with the Dothraki, uniting much of Westeros against him and his foreign horde. Then, when both armies are weakened, Aegon swoops in with the golden company (which is comprised of a lot of westerosi exiles) and unite the factions.
Viserys was supposed to stay in Pentos with Illyrio, so removing him when necessary would have been easy. No one expected him to follow the Dothraki and get himself killed.
