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- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
I think most hard core fans realize Better is the only real shot at a hit single in today's market. Like I have said, this thing will sink or swim by the end of the year. Week 1 isn't close to what I thought it would be either. In the end, Axl has no excuses. He had everything in the world going for him. Big money backing, plenty of time to record at his own pace, full control of artistic decisions, etc. It was his record. He made his bed, and he will have to lie in it.
I dunno, I think are a few songs on here which could do well as singles. Better should be given a chance; it definitely needs to hit the bulls eye or I think the album will tank.
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
obviously the big sellers for a business like best buy are not in music cds....its in other areas...look at the cables for the tvs and stereos for instance
there is something like 600% markup on those things 
i'm prolly wrong on my numbers though...like i said i read it soemwhere and cant remember where so i couldnt verify ... i'm pretty sure though that the exclusive deal pretty much wiped out gnr's debt based on what i had read
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
BLS-Pride wrote:Bono wrote:I've never discounted the other reasons. Just saying it's rather amusing how very few want to even remotely consider the quality of the music played a part as well.
I've been trying to push this point as well. Some of the songs I think are great and amazing but some just aren't as strong.
True. I mean I really like 6 of the songs but as a fan of music I can really like those songs and at the same time know that they won't appeal to a wider audience. I can hear that they don't have that AFD or even Illusion "it" factor in them. And then the ones I don't like I can't imagine your average Joe liking them at all. I think for alot of us we've grown to like/love these songs cause for so long they were the soundtrack to our lives. A soundtrack that noone else even knew about. The songs love'em or hate'em are special to us. I think that skews alot of people's expectations as to what the public will or should think. The individual songs and album as a whole will never be that way to the average person.
Great point Bono, bang on. These songs mean so much more to us than anyone else. People did literally insane things to get their hands on just 'demos' of these songs. We can't even begin to gauge how good these songs in any fair kind of way. I can accept that and I'm not trying to, I like the album it works for me and that's all I can really say.
Then again I had to like the album didn't I, just like everyone else on these forums had to, for the already mentioned reasons. Crazy, insane, illegal acts to get just rough demos, literally weeks and months, in a few cases years logged in at GNR forums talking about the album. Building the new band and album up to friends. After all that how can you possibly judge it fairly, you can't. It takes an extremely strong willed person to go through all that I've just mentioned for several years and then after all that get the album and think 'fuck', I don't really like it.
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
the Priest has weighed in over at the Velvet Rope...
[...]
Gary Arnold took in 1.5 mm for BB on a one way at 8 or 9 dollars a clip, so that helps tremendously towards the P&L.
Bravo Irving on that one.[...]
told you i read it somewhere...it was earlier in the "excuses" thread 
you guys had me second guessing myself though 
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
I think the music is first rate artistically.
I think it's the overall situation that is to blame. And the way this band falls between cracks in the target audience.
Who are they targeting? There has not been much of a campaign to introduce these songs to the current younger generations. The last time the band released an album of original material was 17 years ago. This means the sales would potentially come from those with an interest in old school rock (the folks who buy the new albums of all the established 'big' rock acts of yesteryear...metallica, ac/dc, Motly Crue...these bands tap into that market). This audience is interested in hearing the new works of the old school giants. But their a huge % of their interest diminishes when they discover that the new album is from 1/5th of the original line up. Regardless of if the new music is better or worse than the old band - whatever it is - it is not that 'retro' market - because it's not by the old band other than in name and a lot of people walk with that news. That's how it goes - before they even hear a song. Meanwhile there's been no promo almost. So the 'new' kids arn't exposed to the music, and the casual listener wants to hear the old band. So you are left with sales of:
-new listeners who have stumbled across the songs despite the limited promo.
- the % of old school fans who missed the fact it's a new band.
- the % of old school fans who are strong enough Axl fans that they'll buy it anyway with a new line up.
- the diehards and GNR nerd base like us.
Then deduct from that all the people who had an interest but in tis day and age are able to satisfy that curisoty without spending a cent (downloading, or simpily giving it a free listen on myspace) - and that's what we have left as sales.
So why are we surprised. The band as it is doesn't cater to the casual 1991 music fan, and isn't attaching it's self to the average 2008 teenager either. It's a niche market that this band is now positioned to satisify and I think the sales reflect that.
As a person who is a member of that niche market, I love the new band and the new songs and purchased the album and will enjoy it for decades to come - but I can recgonise reasons why it isn't #1 on every chart and I don't think it has anything to do with the strength of the material.
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
james - didn't you say you only expected the album to sell about 250K in week 1? so how can you call 350K a "huge disappointment"?
Yeah I said that, and have stated several times it exceeded my own sales predictions. I have a feeling my prediction of 100-250k wasn't the expectations of GNR, Uni, Best Buy, other fans,etc. I saw predictions at these sites of over 2 million. Then there's everything in between.
The album has been promoted since Axl first mentioned the album name in 1999. The GNR name always had a certain standard of success. Its why he was able to live off of it without doing anything. According to GNR, this is "the most anticipated album of all time". So when the numbers come in and they are below those expectations and less than half of the other two big rock releases this year, it wasn't the most anticipated album and its time for a slight reevaluation of what GNR is in this era.
Fans are gonna have to get used to the reality. The days of predicting 20 million in sales, Axl headlining stadiums, doing the SB halftime show, and whatever other pipe dream you can think of are over.
The band can still do something in this musical era, they just aren't going to be on top of the world while doing it. At least not with this record. Better is pretty much the album's only chance at connecting with the rock world.
We've heard people say these types of things for years....
This is GNR.
Axl was the real talent of the band, and you'll see this with CD release.
The new material will blow the world away.
Axl is gonna usher in a new era of rock
Stop living in the past.....
Ok, lets do that. Just don't be surprised that its not living up to all the fantasies. As you know, this is GNR's first release in this musical climate. Hell, its their first album since the internet went mainstream. It does have things going against it naturally. However, other artists deal with some of the same issues. The album's achilles heel is that it doesn't really have any guaranteed hit singles. When an album lacks that, it fades fast. I don't care if its a GNR album or a Jim Nabors album, without a killer single in this era your album is burnt toast.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
The album has been promoted since Axl first mentioned the album name in 1999.
And so have the negative stories of cost delays, personnel changes, dormancy, cancelled tours, and locked out studios.
I think there is an equal share of positive and negative attention. It is up to Axl to re-direct music fans with a positive message. But of course he is in Vegas while Rome burns. I hope more is to come.
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
Bono wrote:I've never discounted the other reasons. Just saying it's rather amusing how very few want to even remotely consider the quality of the music played a part as well.
And you are arguing it is a bad album?
I gave it a six out of ten. I really like 6 of the songs, 2 are o.k. and the rest really suck in my opinion and I'm a fan. But even now I'm noticing I'm skipping almost the enitre album except for Better, Sorry, TIL and Prostitute. Even If the World which I really liked at first is starting to get tiresome. I dont' feel this album has any staying power whatsoever.
What I'm argueing is the album isn't something that's going to be liked by the majority of the people who are fly by night Gn'R fans. People who dig the Illsuions and AFD albums but aren't hardcores for the most part are not gonna like this album. That's my arguement. There's nothing so far to prove my arguement but there is nothing to prove me wrong so far. I dont' see anything on this album that will be looked back upon a year from now as a true classic Gn'R song. I don't see anything on this album that will still get anything remotely close to a regular play on radio. I don't see anything on this album that people will be itching to hear a year from now. I see this album as something some people will latch onto for now based on curiosity and then down the road it'll be ignored as an album that "never happened" as far as Gn'R is concerend. It's always gonna be looked back on as a black mark in the Gn'R legacy in my opinion and its gonna eventually boil down to the music I'm affraid.
True story: Last night I was hired to dj a Christmas Party. - Not the glamorus side of djing that's for sure but it' where the big bucks are -
Anyways two girls came up and asked for Guns N' Roses. I said "Do you wanna hear some of the new stuff?" and one of the girls responded immediatley "No way none of that shit. My boyfriend downloaded it and it sounds like shit" Could you play Welcome to the Jungle?"
That's your Joe and Jill public reaction. 
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
There's nothing so far to prove my arguement but there is nothing to prove me wrong so far.
Which is why I said we should wait and look at the long term sales.
It's always gonna be looked back on as a black mark in the Gn'R legacy in my opinion and its gonna eventually boil down to the music I'm affraid.
That is certainly one possibility.
I don't see anything on this album that people will be itching to hear a year from now.
Which people?
I see this album as something some people will latch onto for now based on curiosity and then down the road it'll be ignored as an album that "never happened" as far as Gn'R is concerend.
Again, a possibility but I think there is enough quality to stick. We disagree.
/I dont' feel this album has any staying power whatsoever.
I find I am overdosing on some songs and rediscovering others.
That's your Joe and Jill public reaction.
Not exactly a great sample size. I wouldn't read too much into the reaction of two random people.
Re: Chinese Democracy UNDER 300,000 copies sold first week?
James Lofton wrote:killingvector wrote:Let's look at the long range numbers before declaring the album a bomb and then perhaps there will be some data indicating why not enough people were interested.
I do agree that more time is needed before deeming it a complete failure. Yeah the first week numbers are a huge disappointment and definitely lowers the previous expectations of the band name, but we have to see if its capable of sustaining the numbers it has. If it can remain a bit steady and only drop down to 200-250k the second week, and a slight drop 3rd week, its not too bad. If it plummets the 2nd week to anything below 100k, then yes it bombed.
Everything is gonna ride on Better. The 2nd single deserves a chance to take off.
Regarding Best Buy....there's no way in hell they paid 9 bucks a cd when they know damn good and well a ton of those copies are gonna have to be unloaded for $5.99 at some point. If the 9 bucks a copy figure is true, I'm not surprised they are on the verge of financial catastrophe.
james - didn't you say you only expected the album to sell about 250K in week 1? so how can you call 350K a "huge disappointment"?
if this album sells in the neighborhood of what Death Magnetic sells, than it's done about as well as you could hope in today's market. there are alot of different factors going with both albums, but let's keep it simple....metallica is one of the biggest bands in the world. this was their first release in 5 years and was widely described as an "old school" record. the record their long-time fans have wanted for years. it got good reviews and metallica promoted the fuckin hell out of it.
i think total sales of CD compared to DM is a good benchmark. and it's one that cannot be determined for several months.
Because he thought the album would be a flop to begin with.
And I think his initial prediction was even lower than that. It's not a disappointment, it's an improvement, but it's not a vast enough improvement to scream "runaway success".
