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Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread
Wow James I don't think I could disgaree more with your review of the individual songs. We seem to have exact opposite opinions on almost all tracks. To each their own but in my mind that doesn't bode too well for the album. When long time diehard fans are having such a hard time finding common ground on the album how the hell will it go over with the general public. I honestly think this album will sell well at first based on reputation and then after that it's gonna flop. I just don't see the average Joe having much interest in this. The more I read so many of us are disagreeing when it comes to our thoughts on the album the more I think it's gonna be slim pickings to find others who will like this album. Yeah there might be something here for everyone but not alot for anyone that's for sure. The odd part James is I also rank it a 6 outta 10 and my thoughts pretty much echoe your's in your summary fo the album as a whole. The fascinating thing is we come to that shared conclusion via completely different opinions when it comes to breaking downs the album song by song. Go figure 
Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread
Chinese Democracy
Starts off with one of the greatest intros ever. Gives off a sense of doom and you know you are on the verge of taking a journey you haven't experienced before whether you like it or not. The song will be regarded as average run of the mill filler by most, but I think its one of the strongest tracks on the album. Ron's additions give it the kick in the ass it always needed. Its a lyrical gem on Axl's part, but the irony of the song is lost now that this record was finally released. That alone makes me wish it had been scrapped and been allowed to be a buried, enjoyed treasure for the long time fans who have followed this saga from beginning to end.
Shackler's Revenge
Why is this here? If this song was going to be on the album, it should have been renamed 'Flow Killer'. It doesn't mesh with any of the tracks on the album, and is even more out of place between CD and Better. Lyrically it's a pretty heavy track. From the moment I heard it I thought it was the unknown track 'Zodiac' renamed, and the lyrics seem to suggest this. This song received a superior mixing treatment compared to its prior version, and it sure needed it. Shackler's suffers from guitar overkill, and its only fitting that it made it on to Rock Band 2. That's where it should have stayed.
Better
This was the 'Vertigo' of the Chinese Democracy sessions. Key word there is 'was'. This track is the album's first sign of its brutal, cringe inducing, and amateurish production. Whether you have ever heard this track in a prior form or not, you can tell where extra parts have been pasted in. Every drum paste was completely unnecessary. It actually slows down the song. When a song requires slight hesitations to add something extra in, either leave it out or rerecord the song. If those options are futile, at least mix the added music into the song properly. Many will overlook this aspect, I will not. The song has been turned into a mess of unneeded, useless sounds over some heartfelt lyrics, and fails on many levels. Is now in serious contention for worst song on the album.
Street of Dreams
"All the love in the world couldn't save you....."
One of the most powerful moments of the album lyrically. Axl is exposing his soul to the world in that one sentence. If any of today's youth wants to know what it feels like when you get old(or should I say middle aged), read the lyrics to this song. Its all there. Love. Hate. Anger. Jealousy. Envy. Regret. This song shows you that unconditional love truly does not exist. This song in bootleg form actually brought me to tears many years ago. This is the most emotional song on the album, and I would not be surprised if there was a tear in his beer(or in his lines of cocaine) while writing this song. Unfortunately the song got lost in translation somewhere. Its now an REO Speedwagon power ballad, which does this song a disservice. This is a classic case of Axl and the band unable to rise to the occasion of what he put to paper.
If the World
This song is like the soundtrack to the end of an era. End of GNR? No, the end of U.S. dominance. Unintentionally of course since this song is clearly approaching 10 years old. Song has nothing to do with current events, but offers up a similar theme. Axl is channeling Simply Red here, and it works. Buckethead takes this song to a new level, but unfortunately some of his Colma-ish guitar work is buried underneath layer after layer in sound. Buckethead leaves any doubts behind regarding his talents on this track with his ability to mimic other guitarists. He out Finck's Finck on his solo. This is a beautiful song that gets bogged down by too much noise. Makes you wonder why no one was willing to tell Axl 'enough is enough'. In my opinion, this song sounds like it had a few other song ideas thrown into it at the last minute.
A definite highlight of the album.
There Was A Time
This was never one of my favorites, and the album does nothing to sway that opinion. This is the point where the 'I hate myself and everyone else because I lost Steph' starts to wear thin. Too bad, because the Steph pity party has only begun. This song has always had a Queensyrche Empire era vibe to it, The shining moment of this song comes at the outro where it sounds like Buckethead is paying tribute to the brilliant guitar work done on previous epics done by GNR.
Catcher in the Rye
This is the equivalent of the album hitting a brick wall. Its actually placed perfectly in the track sequence because we now know there is trouble ahead. This song actually makes me uncomfortable listening to it. Its like the vocals were pasted over music that doesn't even go with it. Another case of a band unable to rise to the talent level of its singer. Axl hits his lyrical peak here, in what seems to be an almost first case account of Chapman's murder of Lennon, and also his own reflection of that day. This track had the potential to be timeless, but instead becomes instantly forgettable. Once again I have to give Axl major kudos for the lyrical content of this track. Not just anyone could write something that moving from such a perspective.
Scraped
Now we know what the first single would have been had this beast been unleashed in 2001-02. This song begs to be an anthem for the post 90's era of Guns N' Roses.. However, its way too contrived to ever reach such a mountain. The only interesting thing about this track is how it seems to be some bizarre alternate outtake of Oh My God. "Don’t you try to stop us now "... Considering everything the band has done the past 10 years, no one needs to try. You're perfectly capable of doing that yourself.
Riad and the Bedouins
An amazing intro that shows someone in the band(Axl? Pitman?) is a huge fan of Asian horror. I cannot pinpoint a specific film as the inspiration since I have watched so many of them, it just gives us that same sense of dread found in those films. The added crowd noise is a really nice touch. Its an ode to the hardcores who complained about the bootlegs for so many years. If anyone needed confirmation of their viewing of the forums, look no further than this track.
This track shows the true potential of the previous lineup musically. They finally gel perfectly, and I can picture Tommy's bass actually smoking. Does it matter what Axl is singing about? Not really. This song would have worked brilliantly as an instrumental. The only song where Axl himself is the weak link. The song loses all its steam by an absolutely worthless and out of place solo, although recovers its steam before the end.
Sorry
If I had to cherry pick one track to offer to someone as a representation of this album, I would choose Sorry. I remember many years ago Slash saying that when you listen to Sympathy for the Devil, its the sound of the band breaking up. Well, when you listen to this song, you're getting Axl's side of the story. This song gives us one of the album's most emotional solos.
I.R.S.
Extreme paranoia? Megalomania? Bring it on. Unfortunately, this is delivered to us in short spurts because we're constantly being reminded that various government institutions need to be contacted. The band steps up to the plate, and Tommy's bass tone on this track is as good as it'll ever get. Unfortunately it has to compete with and be buried by unnecessary noise. The greatest Axl scream on record is contained in this track, immediately followed by a blistering solo that also clashes against a wall of noise towards its end. This song wants to be great, but falls way short of that mark.
Madagascar
The wannabe epic of the album. Like Catcher in the Rye, its placed perfectly in the track sequence because the album is entering its cheese mode. I don't necessarily have anything against this specific track, but it just runs in place with a promise of a destination that never comes. Lyrics too repetitive, a killer solo drowned out by samples. Next.
This I Love
When Barry Manilow releases his next greatest hits album, This I Love needs to be a bonus track. The insatiable need for a rhyme, the soothing piano backed by an orchestra and mired in the 70's. Even the basic production reminds us of a time long gone by. This could be played on some 70's easy listening station and no one would call to complain.
This song is the audio equivalent of bad sex. It pulls you in from the start, raises your senses, and hints at an incredible orgasmic moment. The orgasm never comes. What we get instead is quite possibly the worst sounding solo ever recorded on a major band's album. It sounds like some kid learning how to play guitar but being rewarded with a marquee position. It taints whatever beauty the song had because you will always know that moment is coming. Its shocking this track wasn't left in the vault until some proper guitar work could be recorded for it, but considering the filler contained on this album, maybe its not a shock.
Prostitute
"Seems like forever......and a day"
Is he referring to how long it will be until I listen to this song again? The song eats a cheese sandwich from that opening line, and has a bit of trouble steadying itself out from that point on. Like Madagascar, this song attempts to be something it cant, although I will give it props for putting in much more effort than Madagascar. I think it works perfectly as the album's closer. Its the only song that could follow up This I Love. However, this song leaves you wanting so much more and maybe that's part of the point.
The album is certainly an odd musical journey. It has quite a few high points, but there are just so many issues with the overall record. As I've mentioned before, the cut and paste nature of the record comes awfully close to destroying it. Its like some rookie was assigned the job of mixing these songs. There are volume fluctuations, amateur cut and paste jobs, and various skips that are just inexcusable for a band and album of this stature.
The vocals are certainly a mystery. While I don't have as many issues with them as some do, it is perplexing that he seemed to consider them finished so long ago and virtually ignored them. If the vocals were wrapped up in 99-01, what was the goddamn holdup?
The album doesn't really go anywhere. It reaches out for an identity yet its reaching into a void. It spends most of its time wallowing in its own hype and self indulgence. It has unnecessary music added for the simple reason that it can. Logic was apparently thrown out the window.
Chinese Democracy has ambition but lacks the vision.
I'm going to give this album a 6/10. There are flashes of brilliance, but not enough to sustain the entire record or give it a rating I would reserve for classics. Even If I did consider it a perfect ten, the production would forever prevent it from achieving such a high mark.
excellent review, james... harsh.. but probably more right than wrong...
it's difficult to judge a record impartially when it's a band you love and you desperately want the record to blow everything outta the water...especially when it doesn't...
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread
misterID wrote:Overall, the album is Very Good, not great, not as great as it could have been.
Rating: 7
Over excess isn't the word I'd use... More like Gluttony. And for all this talk about the "sleazy" guitar that sounds exactly the same each time its used... Here's some advice, Axl, if you wanted real sleazy guitar... There's this guy... His name is Slash... Maybe... Give him a ring... If that's what you were looking for this entire time and felt that's what the album needed to be released. Maybe there's a sub conscious thing going on there... I don't know. I'm just as confused.
One thing is, there is no demo hangover; if I had never heard the demos I'd feel the same exact way... Actually, I'm wrong. Without the demos I would be let down on biblical porportions and I would have walked away feeling cheated for actually giving a shit about this album. The demos are this bands saving grace.
Chinese Democracy shows me that this band has been suffering a slow death since the exit of Buckethead. An exit that's had more of an impact than people think. The album has no real identity. Not like the demos had. All in all, this album is a smorgasboard... Reeking of someone who couldn't make up there mind or choose a direction... Of someone who was stuck. Chinese Democracy has flashes of sheer and breathtaking brilliance that sinks under its own weight. This almost feels like a slow suicide... leaving me with more than a touch of saddness.
Where Do You Go Now, Axl? I have to admit, as a disappointed fan, I'm still interested.
Though I disagree with the high rating of 7 and calling the album "Very Good"(I'd go with a 6 and call it not bad) I do agree wit the way you sum it up here. There's really nothing on this album that makes me think the band has benifited for the abscence of Slash. Some nice moments but nothng really that makes me think it was all worth it. In fact I think maybe had Slash been around rather than alot of "Yes Men" for lack of a better term we'd have a more bare and raw record that would probably sound better. For me when it comes to musc less is so often more and I think Slash has that sensibility. Combine that with Axl's More is better attitude and I think they strike the perfect balance together.
As for the where does Axl go now question, well........ I'm guessing back to his old friends.
You two guys fucking nailed it. And for all these studio hired guns that were to badasses, what did they really play that Duff, Slash, Izzy, etc couldn't have done, and probably done better. The best solos were easy solos, not super shred. Bumble has no feel at all. Bucket was the real deal pro that best captured Axl's feelings on the guitar ( a great trait about Slash), and Robin was the token "Slash" style player that often came off as contrived because we all know the sound he was going for. I listend to both Contraband and Libertad this evening, musically (Band only, not scott) that shit blows away CD's music (minus the piano songs of course)....... Great thoughts from you two.
Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread
It was really odd, I bought that cd for a mere £12 and halfway home I realised; I didnt give a damn how much money it cost to make, how long it took, how many people came and went from the project, no other original members etc - all the stuff bogging down reviews and influencing opinion.
I had bought this cd for a few pounds and the pleasure I got from listening to it was immense. The music for the most part is outstanding, its a wonderful collection of songs and thats all that should matter. Its cost me very little and gave me a lot. After the long frustrating quagmire thats been the whole Chinese Democracy build up, I think I, and everyone else , has lost perspective in what it actually means just go out and buy a new album and see if its any good.
This album is extremely good, much better than what the bitter politics of the creation process and the familiarity of the leaks would like to have us believe.
i love this. 
Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread
I'm not ready to do a full-on review at this point, but I have to say, this record has a far more consistent tone and sound to it - and far fewer "throwaway" tracks than the Illusion records (yes, I know that UYI was a double album, but you get my point).
Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread
I'm not ready to do a full-on review at this point, but I have to say, this record has a far more consistent tone and sound to it - and far fewer "throwaway" tracks than the Illusion records (yes, I know that UYI was a double album, but you get my point).
This album has more throwaway songs and filler than the Illusions combined in my opinion. I mean the only stuff I really consider filler on the Illusions are:
Dust N' Bones
Bad Obsession
Garden of Eden
Bad Apples
14 Years
Get in the Ring
Pretty Tied Up
So Fine
My World
Chinese Democracy:
Street of Dreams
Catcher in the Rye
There was a Time
Scraped
Riads N' The Bedouins
IRS
O.k. so not more but in my opinion 8 throwaways outta 30 songs is much better than 6 of 14. then again it depends on which songs you consider throw away. Some will say there isn't one throwaway on CD.:haha:
- Locomotive98
- Rep: 17
Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread
Didnt know where to put this but Newsnight on BBC2 here in the UK are talking about CD at 10.30. Bizarre. I'll check it and see what they have to say.....
- mickronson
- Rep: 118
