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Re: My guitar complaint *spoilers included*
war wrote:IMO - this album is awesome and on of it's beter qualities is it's diversity. and the only thing keeping it from being a "perfect" album is the guitar solos.
I don't think anyone is saying its not a damn good album. It is, and when we do our usual 'best of 2008' thread at the end of the year, Chinese Democracy will come in 2nd on my list of best albums of 2008, although I still haven't listened to Dido's record.
i know they aren't
- shotgunblues1978
- Rep: 11
Re: My guitar complaint *spoilers included*
I agree that it all cant be placed at Axl's doorstep as the fans and media blew the project out of proportion, but Axl allowed it to reach this point. In the NYT article, they mention he wants to make the greatest record ever made. He allowed band members to go around announcing that the material was "earth shattering, "mind blowing",etc. So the expectations were born in the GNR camp, and the media and fans ran with it.
Wasn't that quote attributed to one of the engineers? I think it was more of a description of the perfectionist, OCD attitude towards recording than a stated goal
I agree that he let it get to that point by not putting out the album back in 2001-2003, but record label rejected some form of the album at least one time prior to 2001. And the record label undergoing so many changes, including firing the people who greenlit the project and handed over the huge advance
Some of real problems with this constant recording and re-recording arose when RTB was brought in. That NYT article seems to imply that he was brought in or at least recommended by the label, and due to his Queen connection he was probably welcomed with open arms by Axl. What is known is that he had the band re-record everything that had been done to that point. The whole thing is counterintuitive. The record label wanted the album out faster, so they bring in a producer who is a notorious perfectionist and is well-known for demanding take after take and meticulously polishing everything?
The recent Brain interview really shone a lot of light on what went down. RTB making him record his drum parts for each song in one take is downright insane.
It's too bad that they couldn't have got the album out in 2001 or 2002. Maybe we'd be discussing album 3 right now. But I don't think we can even begin to comprehend the type of political power plays, posturing, and legal nonsense that went on with the type of egos and the amount of money involved, combined with Axl's perfectionism and sensitivity and you can see how this thing spiraled out of control and why it took 7 additional years to release an album that was mostly done in 2001
Re: My guitar complaint *spoilers included*
I agree it was basically a soap opera aboard a train heading over the cliff. Unfortunately throughout all these years we were only given glimpses of the chaos behind the scenes. Had Axl(or anyone) been upfront about the project from the start, I think expectations could have been lowered a bit and the album could have glided into reality instead of the potential crash landing it faces.
One thing I would like to know someday about this project is if there were ever any ultimatums given to Axl regarding a release by any band members. Hell, not unloading it in 2001-02 is terrible but understandable to a certain degree, but when 2003-04 rolls around and still nothing, none of these guys became concerned? Then Bucket leaves and its two more years of nothing.
I laugh at how we all thought a release might happen in 2005. We were more likely to see Liberace record a new album in 2005 than we were to see Chinese Democracy.
- shotgunblues1978
- Rep: 11
Re: My guitar complaint *spoilers included*
*this isn't a response to James, I hit reply without seeing his post
I'm not trying to be say that Axl's blame free for the delays because obviously that's not the case
But there were a lot of other people involved who played a role in the delays, at least the initial delays from 1999-2001
That NYT article has a quote from Youth who mentioned how in '98 it was a struggle to get Axl into a state of mind where writing/recording songs was even a possibility. It's obvious that the guy was dealing with depression and other issues at the time and didn't even want to work
So it seems evident to me that the record label, which as the article mentions was struggling at the time, pushed Axl to make a record when he wasn't really in the right state of mind to make one. They threw gobs of money at the situation, with next to no oversight. Then the people who created the situation got shitcanned, and were replaced by others who had different views on the project and where it should be headed. I would bet that once the 1999 or 2000 or 2001 version got rejected, Axl's obsessiveness was ratcheted up tenfold.
You bring in another perfectionist with a big ego in RTB, and he starts making the guys re-record stuff they'd already recorded 2 years earlier. All the while this money's being spent and spent and spent, and nobody is in charge. The whole situation sounds like a mess although, there were enough talented people involved that a good album ended up emerging
I wonder if the guy who rejected the album 7 or 9 years ago wishes he had just given it the thumbs up 
- shotgunblues1978
- Rep: 11
Re: My guitar complaint *spoilers included*
I agree it was basically a soap opera aboard a train heading over the cliff. Unfortunately throughout all these years we were only given glimpses of the chaos behind the scenes. Had Axl(or anyone) been upfront about the project from the start, I think expectations could have been lowered a bit and the album could have glided into reality instead of the potential crash landing it faces.
One thing I would like to know someday about this project is if there were ever any ultimatums given to Axl regarding a release by any band members. Hell, not unloading it in 2001-02 is terrible but understandable to a certain degree, but when 2003-04 rolls around and still nothing, none of these guys became concerned? Then Bucket leaves and its two more years of nothing.
I laugh at how we all thought a release might happen in 2005. We were more likely to see Liberace record a new album in 2005 than we were to see Chinese Democracy.
I doubt there were many ultimatums issued because realistically GnR is the best gig in the world for these guys. Tommy was working at the phone company or something like that when Axl called him
I know Fortus has a lucrative career as a session player and scoring movies and videogames
GnR is the best gig in the world for these guys. They get paid to record, they make more money touring with Guns than they could make with anyone else, and they're free to do whatever the hell they feel like in the downtime. Where else would they go or what else would they do where they have it made like that?
I'm sure they all wish the album came out years ago but for pretty much everyone in the band laying out ultimatums would be like the old cliche of cutting off their nose to spite their face. I think most of them realize that the only thing laying down an ultimatum would do is open up the possibility that they miss out on the big paydays from the next tour
Re: My guitar complaint *spoilers included*
In hindsight the band havnt really done anything since pre-2002 with regards to making and recording GN'R music, thats my assumption.
Because all through the years since all of the guys have been away doing there own projects for long periods, so how much new material can they have actually made for GN'R? Sounds like Ron never actually got to play with them until more or less the eve of the 06 tour and I guess everyone got together at the same time. We know that Ron and Frank added bits after those tours so that was something new at least.
Judging by the leaks Axl never did much to change the vocals over the years, mabye IRS and Maddy will be different when released, but now I wouldnt be suprised if they are the same.
I never really got what people were hearing on the bestbuy leak of TWAT, the vocals sounded better mixed, but otherwise just the same ones as the previous leaks.
From the sources available this whole project has been a long drawn out wasteful album session. Yet still the new talk has swung around to the elusive "big guns" that must be on the next album.
I'm sure there are some great tracks on the next album, if it is going to be released, I just wonder how many big guns they have in the vault if making one album was such an ordeal.
Re: My guitar complaint *spoilers included*
seriously, can we stop talking about the past? ...at least until the end of the year. Can we just talk about the record? Forget about what is going to happen "next' as well....I gotta say that I can see why Axl doesn't want to communicate with his alleged fans....NOTHING and I mean NOTHING will ever be good enough. He simply can't win. *cues up Sorry and stops reading inane posts on a message board.*
