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Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
misterID wrote:I'm seeing a lot of Biden voters saying far more callous things. It's just the same talking points being said as what you're saying, and the stark turnaround from last year and what wasn't tolerated is just astounding. This isn't about the history of Afghanistan, the war, the last twenty years, or even refugees. There are over ten thousand Americans stranded behind enemy lines and we're not doing dick to get them. If you don't care about that, why do you care about anything?
CNN had an “analysis” earlier that was titled “When did you last think of Afghanistan?”
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/opinions … index.html
This organization along with many others earned their audience preaching fear and telling them that Trump would bring WW3. He ended ISIS and withdrew the bulk of American forces, leaving small contingents as we have in Iraq since 2011. He got 3 or 4 Arab nations to recognize Israel. He held talks with Kim and got the guy to quit shooting rockets over Japan. No one is talking about North Korean nukes. He negotiated a deal to stop combat operations with the Taliban, and set a time table for a full withdrawal.
The American media can’t hide what a collosal fuck up this is, but they’re bending over themselves to make excuses on how they’re not looking like fools for soft balling and singing praise of this administration. Even going so far as to tell us Afghanistan and this colossal fuck up don’t really matter, cause it’s just Afghanistan. It was already fucked, so botching a withdrawal and putting 10k Americans at the direct mercy of the Taliban, who we just learned Biden is engaged in daily negotiations with, isn’t worth much consideration, culpability, and accountability.
After the scrutiny and tone directed at the former President for his international relations, you have to be a real sycophant to not find issue with the current President and the direct danger he’s directly responsible for putting 10k+ of his citizens in.
To say this isn’t important or worth caring about…. Jesus Christ.
Not a very good deal. It is fair to throw some blame his way.
As you said though, it's not like Biden had to uphold it, the Taliban had already broken it. At the least there could have been an attempt to renegotiate it.
I am shocked at the callousness I am seeing from some circles. This "I don't care, we go out, job done, fuck what's left behind" attitude is sickening. It is especially sickening from those who spent four years going on about morality and humanity.
When it's their guy in the firing line that shit's out the window and they're looking for excuses or saying it's justifiable because "Americans don't care anyone, it always was going to be a messy end". If that's your line, that's a joke. It's an abdication of responsibility. Leaders are elected to use their judgement and make hard decisions, even if they're not popular.
It is debatable whether withdrawing (or at least to this extent) was a good idea. It is not debatable that the withdrawal has been botched badly, and this level of chaos was avoidable.
- TheSundanceKid
- Rep: 30
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
They should have evacuated personal that helped NATO.
Then said hey we are going.
What a waste of money and time.
I’m surprised the Taliban hasn’t tried to shoot down any planes. But, I assume they’re lettting people and the planes leave because they know they’ll be met with a nasty response.
I don’t think you can negotiate either with these people as well.
Afghanistan is just going to become a no go zone and pariah of a place.
I assume predator drone strikes and other air strikes will be on the table if it becomes a breeding ground for terror.
When UBL was killed in Pakistan that’s when I thought what a waste. Yes the initial invasion to get UBL and al Qaeda was the right decision. After he slipped away at Tora Bora that’s when all efforts should have been made to get him.
Anyhow, one can’t defend a country indefinitely, and ones own people need to step up. Obviously, they didn’t have much faith in their own government and preferred their tribal warlords factions and the Taliban.
Let China and Russia enjoy The place where empires can’t win, if they acknowledge the new government. I know China has more at stake due to their belt and road initiative.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Satire, but on point
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
misterID wrote:I'm seeing a lot of Biden voters saying far more callous things. It's just the same talking points being said as what you're saying, and the stark turnaround from last year and what wasn't tolerated is just astounding. This isn't about the history of Afghanistan, the war, the last twenty years, or even refugees. There are over ten thousand Americans stranded behind enemy lines and we're not doing dick to get them. If you don't care about that, why do you care about anything?
CNN had an “analysis” earlier that was titled “When did you last think of Afghanistan?”
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/opinions … index.html
This organization along with many others earned their audience preaching fear and telling them that Trump would bring WW3. He ended ISIS and withdrew the bulk of American forces, leaving small contingents as we have in Iraq since 2011. He got 3 or 4 Arab nations to recognize Israel. He held talks with Kim and got the guy to quit shooting rockets over Japan. No one is talking about North Korean nukes. He negotiated a deal to stop combat operations with the Taliban, and set a time table for a full withdrawal.
The American media can’t hide what a collosal fuck up this is, but they’re bending over themselves to make excuses on how they’re not looking like fools for soft balling and singing praise of this administration. Even going so far as to tell us Afghanistan and this colossal fuck up don’t really matter, cause it’s just Afghanistan. It was already fucked, so botching a withdrawal and putting 10k Americans at the direct mercy of the Taliban, who we just learned Biden is engaged in daily negotiations with, isn’t worth much consideration, culpability, and accountability.
After the scrutiny and tone directed at the former President for his international relations, you have to be a real sycophant to not find issue with the current President and the direct danger he’s directly responsible for putting 10k+ of his citizens in.
To say this isn’t important or worth caring about…. Jesus Christ.
So what are you saying? We shouldn't have left? This should go on in perpetuity?
How long did people know we were leaving and did nothing?
I'm tired of the military constantly justifying itself by never solving any problems. It seems plenty of money was made by keeping all of those middle east/Asia conflicts going forever.
The biggest embarrassment is how much money we spent on all of this, how much time was spent, and how little we accomplished. I'm tired of congress approving more funding for the military but somehow it's never required that anything is actually accomplished. No, I'm not talking about always advancing our weaponry and our techniques. I'm talking about standing armies and special forces spending two decades somewhere no really accomplishing anything.
That's the biggest embarrassment to me. Since WWII, this country has used its military in ways it shouldn't be doing.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
mitchejw wrote:Nah…i think I’m just gonna back to not caring.
I feel bad for the refugees but this was a shit storm decades in the making…i neither have the time nor the desire to research the last damn near 50 years. Especially when it will result in nothing.
I’m gonna hold my kids a bit tighter the next few days and move on.
"I don't give a shit to learn about this conflict, I'm just going to stop caring. Time to move on."
The 12 year old Afghan girl who is about to watch her Dad get beheaded for assisting the allied forces before she's raped from daylight to dawn for the rest of her life, she doesn't get to move on.
You vote for the people who make these decisions, you go on and on about how the last guy was bad and how awful and dangerous his foreign policy was. When the consequences of your guy's foreign policy blows up you don't get to check out and then swan back in later for the next event.
This disaster did not have to be decades in the making. And at the least, those who helped the coalition forces deserves some thanks, rescue and respect.
Yep...that's awful stuff. I don't even wanna think about it.
This was always the way it was going to end...in complete and utter chaos. You can't have all these people there for decades with no real goals and no tangible proof of any real successes while we were there.
What we needed to do was accept as many refugees as we could ASAP. However, that would be more to make ourselves feel better than anything else. This country has left a giant turd of embarrassment in Afghanistan.
I guess we can't solve everyone's problems with bigger guns.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Randall Flagg wrote:misterID wrote:I'm seeing a lot of Biden voters saying far more callous things. It's just the same talking points being said as what you're saying, and the stark turnaround from last year and what wasn't tolerated is just astounding. This isn't about the history of Afghanistan, the war, the last twenty years, or even refugees. There are over ten thousand Americans stranded behind enemy lines and we're not doing dick to get them. If you don't care about that, why do you care about anything?
CNN had an “analysis” earlier that was titled “When did you last think of Afghanistan?”
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/opinions … index.html
This organization along with many others earned their audience preaching fear and telling them that Trump would bring WW3. He ended ISIS and withdrew the bulk of American forces, leaving small contingents as we have in Iraq since 2011. He got 3 or 4 Arab nations to recognize Israel. He held talks with Kim and got the guy to quit shooting rockets over Japan. No one is talking about North Korean nukes. He negotiated a deal to stop combat operations with the Taliban, and set a time table for a full withdrawal.
The American media can’t hide what a collosal fuck up this is, but they’re bending over themselves to make excuses on how they’re not looking like fools for soft balling and singing praise of this administration. Even going so far as to tell us Afghanistan and this colossal fuck up don’t really matter, cause it’s just Afghanistan. It was already fucked, so botching a withdrawal and putting 10k Americans at the direct mercy of the Taliban, who we just learned Biden is engaged in daily negotiations with, isn’t worth much consideration, culpability, and accountability.
After the scrutiny and tone directed at the former President for his international relations, you have to be a real sycophant to not find issue with the current President and the direct danger he’s directly responsible for putting 10k+ of his citizens in.
To say this isn’t important or worth caring about…. Jesus Christ.
So what are you saying? We shouldn't have left? This should go on in perpetuity?
No, what I'm saying is what you're doing cartwheels to avoid addressing. We should have gotten out of Afghanistan. We could have even done it on Biden's timeline. He just should have had a plan to secure/force citizens out of the country before pulling back. It's not a hard problem to identify, but you're here to stir the pot and play sycophant to Biden. Biden and Biden alone was responsible for the timeline, resources, and coordination to extract Americans and the few Afghan's who qualified for a special visa for years of work collaborating with the US. He didn't account for any of that, and now 10-15k Americans are in direct danger of being slaughtered by the Taliban.
I understand you can't have an intelligent discussion, and refuse to acknowledge any of your dear leader's short comings. But 15k Americans are trapped between Taliban forces only because of a decision and plan made by Joe Biden. No one else.
Please just leave the conversation. You're not contributing anything, admitted you don't care, and refuse to get informed. Find a thread you can post in. Or better just tweet.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
If our citizens get stuck there and God forbid some sort of Somalia style massacre occurs, Biden needs to be removed from office either through impeachment or the 25th amendment.
He's on the verge of making Carter's handling of Iran look like Reagan's handling of Grenada.
I really don't know how anyone can defend this level of cluelessness and incompetence. It's mind boggling.
If this had happened in any prior decade when everything wasn't hyperpartisan, he'd be getting tons of shit from all Americans and politicians from both sides.
He ignored the UK PM's phone calls yesterday?!?
He's not fit to lead.
I said it yesterday but we really needed a competent VP.
Shit like this is why you pick someone qualified....NOT announce you are only picking someone for their sex and skin color.
This crisis is going to get worse.
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Not a huge fan of the guy because of his overall political ideology but he's a former UK International Development Secretary and he's always been well spoken and articulate on most issues. He covers of some of the core problems with the withdrawal in just under 2 minutes.
Worth a watch. Especially for you mitch as you keep parroting the "it was always going to be chaos" "leaving with a mess had to happen" bs.
I wouldn’t vote for Rory Stewart if you paid me, but he speaks sense in these two clips. The question remains - Joe Biden can’t even lace up his shows without help, so who is pulling his strings? pic.twitter.com/CJmnqTj1AO
— Rush (@exRAF_Al) August 20, 2021
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Vid in the reply where he articulates exactly why at the end of the day, despite this being tee'd up by Trump, the blame ultimately lies with Biden.
And the second clip. Joe Biden rescinded Trump edicts on the pipeline and the wall but Not Afghan. Why not? Why would he do something so obviously harmful and disadvantageous to the US? pic.twitter.com/KqvCoIHBPJ
— Rush (@exRAF_Al) August 20, 2021
Re: Taliban control of Afghanistan on the 20th Anniversary of 9/11
Randall Flagg wrote:misterID wrote:I'm seeing a lot of Biden voters saying far more callous things. It's just the same talking points being said as what you're saying, and the stark turnaround from last year and what wasn't tolerated is just astounding. This isn't about the history of Afghanistan, the war, the last twenty years, or even refugees. There are over ten thousand Americans stranded behind enemy lines and we're not doing dick to get them. If you don't care about that, why do you care about anything?
CNN had an “analysis” earlier that was titled “When did you last think of Afghanistan?”
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/19/opinions … index.html
This organization along with many others earned their audience preaching fear and telling them that Trump would bring WW3. He ended ISIS and withdrew the bulk of American forces, leaving small contingents as we have in Iraq since 2011. He got 3 or 4 Arab nations to recognize Israel. He held talks with Kim and got the guy to quit shooting rockets over Japan. No one is talking about North Korean nukes. He negotiated a deal to stop combat operations with the Taliban, and set a time table for a full withdrawal.
The American media can’t hide what a collosal fuck up this is, but they’re bending over themselves to make excuses on how they’re not looking like fools for soft balling and singing praise of this administration. Even going so far as to tell us Afghanistan and this colossal fuck up don’t really matter, cause it’s just Afghanistan. It was already fucked, so botching a withdrawal and putting 10k Americans at the direct mercy of the Taliban, who we just learned Biden is engaged in daily negotiations with, isn’t worth much consideration, culpability, and accountability.
After the scrutiny and tone directed at the former President for his international relations, you have to be a real sycophant to not find issue with the current President and the direct danger he’s directly responsible for putting 10k+ of his citizens in.
To say this isn’t important or worth caring about…. Jesus Christ.
So what are you saying? We shouldn't have left? This should go on in perpetuity?
How long did people know we were leaving and did nothing?
I'm tired of the military constantly justifying itself by never solving any problems. It seems plenty of money was made by keeping all of those middle east/Asia conflicts going forever.
The biggest embarrassment is how much money we spent on all of this, how much time was spent, and how little we accomplished. I'm tired of congress approving more funding for the military but somehow it's never required that anything is actually accomplished. No, I'm not talking about always advancing our weaponry and our techniques. I'm talking about standing armies and special forces spending two decades somewhere no really accomplishing anything.
That's the biggest embarrassment to me. Since WWII, this country has used its military in ways it shouldn't be doing.
This talking point about staying in Afghanistan is such BS. No one is saying this, this is not the topic, this is Democratic spin.
Biden could have pulled out successfully. This didn't have to happen. The options were not 1) Exit competently. 2) Stay forever.
So please, I really don't want to hear this gaslighting, false choice, Democratic propaganda. Please, dude. This isn't what we're talking about. I don't know how to explain it any better than that. It's the actual exit, nothing else.
