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Re: The Wrestling thread
Here's my gripe with the Rock...you can't deny his talent and the way he entertains a crowd...
BUT...he was only a full time wrestler for 5 or 6 years. He's been back for a handful of short stints since then. Rock was great for the business while he was in it...but that's bordering on 20 years ago now.
When he comes back, he really robs someone one of a spot that should be elevated. The more times he's done this, the more he's hurt the overall business. CM Punk said it best when they had their feud in 2013 (or whatever year). He said, 'every time you wanna come back here and grace us with your presence...' then insert some snarky comment about the multitude of ways it hindered the business.
On top of that, I really don't like his movies and I don't really think he's a good actor beyond a single character he plays over and over.
With Stone Cold out due to injury in the early 2000s, that whole late 90s era came to an abrupt end with neither top star really contributing much any more.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Rock wanted to wrestle Sting badly, and I think he would've done way better with him than HHH, who just seemed to be weirdly interested in burying him. They literally hyped up the match saying the WWE plucked him out of obscurity. Wtf?
Also, Owen Hart totally fucked Austin up. Even though everyone says how great of a guy he was (I'm sure he was) I remember distinctly back in the day Owen had an awful reputation about hurting wrestlers, even before it became his "dangerous" gimmick. Austin told him twice not to deliver the tombstone piledriver on his ass, but his knees like Taker. And the dude did it on his ass anyway. There was no reason for it.We still have no idea what else Austin could've done if it weren't for that.
Re: The Wrestling thread
For anyone overly sympathetic towards Austin over the Owen thing, there's this:
https://twitter.com/cozysuperkick/status/1217315826895732737?s=20
Chono finished that match, but was never the same and had to change his style.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I think it's a lot different when you specifically tell someone not to do a very dangerous move and they deliberately do it anyway. This isn't just a botch. Maybe he thought it was funny and considered it a prank? I don't know, I'm sure he didn't hurt him on purpose, but it was incredibly reckless. I mean, didn't Chris Jericho accidentally break someone's neck early in his career? So did HHH. And Sabu. The list goes on and on. This is different.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I watched Vader vs HBK at Summer Slam last night, it was a good match, but you can tell Vader is very uncomfortable about working too stiffly with him (which Vader did) and was throwing fluff punches at him. Also, Michaels totally breaks kayfabe on a missed spot--he was going for the Macho Man elbow off the ropes but weirdly landed on his feet instead-- so he starts berating Vader as he's lying on the mat and kicking him in the head on a LIVE PPV. There was also a weird botched ending where Vader was supposed to kick out of Sweet Chin Music but didn't, so the ref jumps up after counting three and says he only counted two. It was so odd I had to look this up, so I found two shoot interviews, one with Vader and another with Bruce Prichard, who said that HBK got Vader buried for this, ending a planned storyline for Vader to win the title later on and enter a feud with both HBK and Bret Hart. Vader said it was an honest mistake, insinuates that HBK continuously threatened him that if he worked stiff with him he'd have him fired (it shows!). Apparently, HBK mercilessly bullied him backstage, even making him breakdown at a house show. If you watch the match you can totally see HBK has rattled him mentally, and Shawn doesn't even try to sell that he's in the ring with a "monster."
After that, Sid got Vader's spot. I don't see HBK pulling that shit with Sid.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Vader getting the shit kicked out of him by Orndorf in 93 must have destroyed his self esteem when it came to backstage politics.
He was never the same after that. Rolled over for all of Hogan's crap and of course the HBK fiasco.
I never understood why HBK and his clique were given so much power. Yeah he was good....but not to the point where he's running things.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Vader getting the shit kicked out of him by Orndorf in 93 must have destroyed his self esteem when it came to backstage politics.
He was never the same after that. Rolled over for all of Hogan's crap and of course the HBK fiasco.
I never understood why HBK and his clique were given so much power. Yeah he was good....but not to the point where he's running things.
It's too bad on Vader. One of my favorite feuds was the Cactus Jack-Vader feud in the early 90s. Ended up w/Foley getting amnesia and wandering in Cleveland.
I think Vince really liked HBK and there were some unsubstantiated rumors about that. But yeah, he got waaay too much power for a guy who bombed as a champion.
Re: The Wrestling thread
James wrote:Vader getting the shit kicked out of him by Orndorf in 93 must have destroyed his self esteem when it came to backstage politics.
He was never the same after that. Rolled over for all of Hogan's crap and of course the HBK fiasco.
I never understood why HBK and his clique were given so much power. Yeah he was good....but not to the point where he's running things.
It's too bad on Vader. One of my favorite feuds was the Cactus Jack-Vader feud in the early 90s. Ended up w/Foley getting amnesia and wandering in Cleveland.
I think Vince really liked HBK and there were some unsubstantiated rumors about that. But yeah, he got waaay too much power for a guy who bombed as a champion.
I don't think there was any gay stuff, all those rumors seem to come from angry mid-carders who never had any other evidence than, "yeah, I heard... Well, it had to be..." And this would have been a regular thing with Vince. The only thing I ever heard was Vince fucking women in the businees, or trying to. There were more credible rumors about Pat Patterson and Roddy Piper.
I think HBK represented to Vince what he wanted in a champion and that he molded Shawn himself. ALso, I think he appreciated/identified with his sneaky, slime ball ambition. It's not far fetched that he saw him as a son, maybe a reflection of himself as a wrestler he never got the chance to be, and that he was loyal and a spy for him, etc. And he did everything he wanted. But yeah, I was just thinking about that. Back in the 90s, he had Cena level hate as a face. The fans cheered for Sid as the heel champ over him. But HBK always worked better as a heel.
Re: The Wrestling thread
The HBK vs Cena match at Wrestlemania, I remember Shawn sitting on the turnbuckle looking pissed off, when a fan tries to get in the ring then Shawn goes up to the ref and LOUDLY says to the cameras: "Can we get on with this, I have a job to do." Would any other wrestler get away with that?
