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Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
war wrote:you could have afforded the managers they had back then. these guys, on the contrary, are heavy hitters. look at their track record. as far as doing what axl tells them, yes, but only to an extent. he hired them to get the album out = fact because he wouldn't be paying them for anything else. you can bet they are not cheap. axl will respect them. you ask how i know all this. to me it seems obvious.
No offense, but I disagree whole-heartedly. I'm gonna tell you why. Axl's his own person, remember the story about a high-profile producer was brought in to help Axl finish the album (years ago, it was in Q Magazine article I beleive) He was a friend of the label head & came in, said "We're gonna do this, this and then this, all by this deadline and put it out by this date." Axl said OK, and the next day the guy was fired. I'm not trying to say 'Axl is the man' or anything, but he is a controlling headcase, and I don't think anybody walks in to his life and work & gives him orders. Especially people he's paying.
Secondly, you say 'he hired them to get the album out'. Yes, and if the album is completed ( which is possible) it would then be a debate between GnR's mgmt, Axl, and the label. So his mgmt would be telling the label what to do, not telling Axl. He'd balk at any suggestions his mgmt gives him that he disagrees with.
It's not complicated to release an album at this stage in GnR's game. Give them a record, ask tehy release it. Bam, done. Axl isn't asking this mgmt team "How do I put out this aalbum... help me?!" However Axl is likely asking for something with it's release. Let's look at this objectively, the album is finished, the label has spent over $13 million on it. I beleive most of this was an "advance". Therefore, they paid Axl in advance, so when the album sells, they would garnish his wages, and withhold the first $13 million he would have recv'd. The new mgmt isn't just going to say "Axl this is the label final offer, you need to accept this" and suddenly after 10+ years Axl caves in to this new great mgmt team. It's possible the mgmt team is handling the BS, Robin saw a never-ending stalemate, and decided to tour with NIN. I think it's only a tour though, I don't think he left permanantly. Although it's possible he knew GnR officially wouldn't tour this summer so he chose to tour with NIN, without telling Axl.
you are comparing apples to oranges there
first sentence - the album wasn't done then - it is now. it's axl's music. telling someone no i'm gonna do that to my songs is different then no, i'm not gonna listen to you as my manager when you tell me it would be best to update the fans. very different.
second sentence - i agree but doesn't change what i said or refute it. axl wouldn't need management nor would he buy the finest if he didn't want to cooperate to some extent. at this point, if they say fans need to know what is going on with robin or you should comment on dr pepper. he will do that. don't believe every horror story you've heard about him or anyone - they are almost always less than half true. in fact, yur disagreeing with my point and then doing a hypethetical based on my point to argue your point. not sure why or how you are disagreeing here.
third sentence - to say that this isn't and isn't going to continue to be complicated both in front and behind th scenes is just plain incorrect.
Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
in the end, nothing will get done without Axl's consent. You can throw all the rules out with Axl-"obvious" is not something that he adheres to very often. And most of all, it's his album, not theirs.
he would have the final say, i agree, but i am willing to bet he is letting managment do it's job without micromanaging them.
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Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
war wrote:you could have afforded the managers they had back then. these guys, on the contrary, are heavy hitters. look at their track record. as far as doing what axl tells them, yes, but only to an extent. he hired them to get the album out = fact because he wouldn't be paying them for anything else. you can bet they are not cheap. axl will respect them. you ask how i know all this. to me it seems obvious.
No offense, but I disagree whole-heartedly. I'm gonna tell you why. Axl's his own person, remember the story about a high-profile producer was brought in to help Axl finish the album (years ago, it was in Q Magazine article I beleive) He was a friend of the label head & came in, said "We're gonna do this, this and then this, all by this deadline and put it out by this date." Axl said OK, and the next day the guy was fired. I'm not trying to say 'Axl is the man' or anything, but he is a controlling headcase, and I don't think anybody walks in to his life and work & gives him orders. Especially people he's paying.
Secondly, you say 'he hired them to get the album out'. Yes, and if the album is completed ( which is possible) it would then be a debate between GnR's mgmt, Axl, and the label. So his mgmt would be telling the label what to do, not telling Axl. He'd balk at any suggestions his mgmt gives him that he disagrees with.
I'm not sure that's true anymore. Wasn't it Baz who said in an interview not that long ago that Axl's sick of yes man and people don't talk to him straight. This is all off memory but I'm pretty sure Baz said people only say to Axl what they think he wants to hear and he respects people a lot more who tell him it how it is.
Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
PaSnow wrote:war wrote:you could have afforded the managers they had back then. these guys, on the contrary, are heavy hitters. look at their track record. as far as doing what axl tells them, yes, but only to an extent. he hired them to get the album out = fact because he wouldn't be paying them for anything else. you can bet they are not cheap. axl will respect them. you ask how i know all this. to me it seems obvious.
No offense, but I disagree whole-heartedly. I'm gonna tell you why. Axl's his own person, remember the story about a high-profile producer was brought in to help Axl finish the album (years ago, it was in Q Magazine article I beleive) He was a friend of the label head & came in, said "We're gonna do this, this and then this, all by this deadline and put it out by this date." Axl said OK, and the next day the guy was fired. I'm not trying to say 'Axl is the man' or anything, but he is a controlling headcase, and I don't think anybody walks in to his life and work & gives him orders. Especially people he's paying.
Secondly, you say 'he hired them to get the album out'. Yes, and if the album is completed ( which is possible) it would then be a debate between GnR's mgmt, Axl, and the label. So his mgmt would be telling the label what to do, not telling Axl. He'd balk at any suggestions his mgmt gives him that he disagrees with.
I'm not sure that's true anymore. Wasn't it Baz who said in an interview not that long ago that Axl's sick of yes man and people don't talk to him straight. This is all off memory but I'm pretty sure Baz said people only say to Axl what they think he wants to hear and he respects people a lot more who tell him it how it is.
Thank you!
Karma for that - for agreeing
it's basic psychology
everyone respects people that demand it mroe than people bow down
Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
you are comparing apples to oranges there
first sentence - the album wasn't done then - it is now. it's axl's music. telling someone no i'm gonna do that to my songs is different then no, i'm not gonna listen to you as my manager when you tell me it would be best to update the fans. very different.
second sentence - i agree but doesn't change what i said or refute it. axl wouldn't need management nor would he buy the finest if he didn't want to cooperate to some extent. at this point, if they say fans need to know what is going on with robin or you should comment on dr pepper. he will do that. don't believe every horror story you've heard about him or anyone - they are almost always less than half true. in fact, yur disagreeing with my point and then doing a hypethetical based on my point to argue your point. not sure why or how you are disagreeing here.
third sentence - to say that this isn't and isn't going to continue to be complicated both in front and behind th scenes is just plain incorrect.
^^ I see, I was taking your 'mgmt' statement more as to releasing the album, not updates about Robin.
I still say Axl's his own person though. The new mgmt is likely to be telling him he 'should' update about Robin, but as to whether he agrees or not is up to Axl, not mgmt. Just because we got an update right away about the Dr Pepper thing, doesn't mean it's a new era in GnR world updating fans. But we'll see. As the saying goes "Once is an incident. Twice is a trend. Three times is a pattern"
Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
I know this might be digging a little deep, but did anyone else notice Robin's site? it says "new site soon" and soon is obviously bolded and a bigger font. You think that's a sarcastic shot at Axl and GNR's treatment of CD? We always hear the album will be out soon.
I'm totally reading too much into it.
Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
all i now is i am tired of speculating and i am gonna make a prediction as many have done in the past and are always wrong as i probably will be also since this band does nothing in conventional fashion. maybe we can have fun with us and others can make predictions as well and see who's prediction is the closest in the end. if there is an end to this madness that is.
so here goes:
robin finck was approached by trent a few months ago about the tour plans. at the time chinese democracy was complete but it's release time was uncertain for axl had no management and promo plan in place. axl gave him his blessing.
gnr has no "lead" guitarist per se. Gnr does have three very capable and talented guitar players, all in their own right. robin is a great writer and has good stage pressence, richard has good stage peformance and is very diverse as a player, and bumblefoot can shred with the best and has added some great rythm/acoustic work to the new songs. and then there is........
BUCKETHEAD!!!
rumored to return upon release of chinese democracy with brain.
Now i will not attempt to predict CD's release date or even close to because that is an impossibility for it could change as it continues to do so.......................
I will say that robin is on board at the same capacity as he was before the NIN fiasco started. if cd has a release date that conflicts with the NIN tour, GNR will press on with the release and ensuing tour with richard, bumblefoot and Buckethead on stage.
Re: Robin back in NIN. Temp or not is the question?
Predictions 1. Robin was not under contract with Gnr anymore, got sick of waiting for the record to be released and signed on with NIN. 2. There will be no album release in 2008. 3. There will be no tour in 2008. After that, I don't give a shit as to what happens.:headbang::flame::mad:
