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Re: The Terminator
just saying Cameron would be a smart enough fellow to make smarter movies, if they'd let him.
Oh they'd let him. Cameron might be the only guy who gets 200 million green lit for ANY project. Problem is he doesn't want to. Ever since he hit it big in the 80s he's taken the safe route. He undoubtedly could do a lot better, but like so many others seems to have become obsessed with being the top dog, always bringing in record dollars for the studio. He's not making movies for the movie sake anymore, he's doing it to prop his already bloated CV. The guy has both world records at the box office, he ain't going back to more daring and adventurous film making. It's too risky and he doesn't need to.
Re: The Terminator
What I was referring to was the reality that art goes out the window at a certain financial mark, and it's time to do something that'll surely get into the crowds. Avatar doesn't just accidentally draw parallels to Pocahontas; a movie that expensive needs a story that will help justify the enormous cost and make enormous profit.
Having said that, as case evidence for Cameron to lean on to the big bucks, I give you A Crowded Room, a minor drama budgeted for a modest million dollars or so in the early 90s. Based on the story of Billy Milligan,
the subject of a highly publicized court case in Ohio in the late 1970s. After having committed several felonies including armed robbery, he was arrested for three rapes on the Ohio State University campus. In the course of preparing his defense, psychologists diagnosed Milligan with multiple personality disorder. His lawyers pleaded insanity, claiming that two of his alternate personalities committed the crimes without Milligan's being aware of it. He was the first person diagnosed with multiple personality disorder to raise such a defense.
Personally, I enjoyed the script. It was a streamlined account of what could easily be a very jumbled story. Noble, even. Had Cameron done it around or after T2, he would've certainly challenged himself as a storyteller in a completely different way. No FX, no grandeur, just people.
Re: The Terminator
Here's Xenogenesis, a 12-minute short film/FX showreel Cameron and friends did back in '78. Starring later T2 cowriter William Wisher as a hapless leading man, it's essentially the Ripley/Queen fight from Aliens. The stopmotion work they did at the time is pretty outstanding, considering the technology of the time. It still holds out reasonably well and is of certain historical interest.
Re: The Terminator
Thought The Terminator was one of the best neo-noir films of it's era. I think it just nails that whole period. The ambient, panavision-styled neo-noir 80's direction that although James Cameron, could easily be John Carpenter or Michael Mann of the same period. The thumping electronic soundtrack from Brad Fiedel, the whole feel of that movie is so 80's and of that time period, that regardless of the Terminator franchise, T1 stands alone just as it's own film in those slew of films from that time. I'm thinking of The Terminator, Alien, Body Heat, Thief, Escape From New York, Halloween III: Season of the Witch, Night of the Comet, Day of the Dead among some of the more horror-related ones, the early seasons of Miami Vice & The Equalizer and of course the big one -- Blade Runner.
(I also think T2 is the superior masterpiece, and possibly one of Cameron's Top-3 films)
Terminator 2 was sort of The Dark Knight of it's day. Superior in about everyway, but completely derivative of it's predecessor. Like Halloween II on Barry Bonds-steroids, T2 offers nothing new to the table, but yet remains a satisfying Part II completion of the Terminator story. But by 1991, so much time had passed, that that totally unique and lovable dark world that was presented in Terminator was lost. I missed that world. I wanted to see what 1994 would look like from THAT version of 1984. Instead Cameron presents 1994, in 1991 terms, with more hair and less grunge, and basically it was the world we live in. As much as I love leather biker jackets and Guns N' Roses, I would've enjoyed more pastel suits and a soundtrack by Vangelis for T2.
I also think a missed point was seeing an entire future-based Terminator, with a big budget, with Cameron's 1984-vision of the future. God that would've ruled!
Either way, the franchise basically flatlined after T2, and let's be honest -- THAT IS the franchise. T1 & T2. T3 was derivative of the derivative film (really?), and T4 did so little with so much, including a Christian Bale that stomped around aimlessly looking and feeling totally out of place. A better director than McG probably would've brought more out of the resources for T4, and on those levels it was a disappointment, even though I think the Arnold-less T4 might be slightly superior to the mediocre WITH Arnold T3. Neither film is bad, but neither film is great.
Which lends to the TV series, The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Probably the proud jewel of post-T2/post-Cameron work for Terminator, the series at least tried to stay true to the world presented in T2. The show actually brought forth well-done character development each week, interesting twists, and was just about to hit what I would've thought would've been their best season in year 3, but it was cancelled. My only complaints about the series was that it didn't distinguish itself enough with Terminator music (to add to the world), and that some episodes trailed off into formula TV. But Lena Headey was the real standout. Not only is she HOT, but seriously she was DAMN GOOD as Sarah Connor. At this stage she might be a better Sarah Connor than Linda Hamilton. Either way, I saw the series as the real sequel to the first two films, if there was one.
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: The Terminator
Yea tscc was awesome...was shocked that it got canned
Glad to hear a couple fellow fans of the show are still shouting it's greatness like myself. Still breaks my heart a little to this day that it got canceled too soon without a proper conclusion (*cough, Samurai Jack *cough). Also on a rough note no doubt. Originally they were going to do a 2 hour TV movie to wrap everything up in terms of the series on another network probably SyFy; but that concept was scrapped when most of the actors/actresses and producers just lost interest. Mainly Fox canceling and not following through with marketing good shows. Also Shirley Manson as an evolved T-1000 Terminator that was fucking badass as hell in the second season. Summer Glau was amazing as well.
Completely agree on Lena, Axlin. Goddamn. 
She was actually really good as the villain in Dredd 3D AKA one fun action movie that's very 80s yet made in modern times and a reboot that has balls and wit. I highly recommend checking that flick out if you haven't done so already. I will agree that T1&T2 is the film franchise to me too.
Re: The Terminator
The biggest problem that led to the death of TSCC was it's cost. I remember reading news articles months in advance as far back as 2007 when the series was first in production, talking about how much cost overruns were taking place and how much enormous debt Fox was going in producing the series, trying to keep some sort of production value comparable to T2 (they never did that). The series was originally supposed to premiere in 2007, but the cost overruns, production delays, and Fox not been "stunned" by the series they were banking so much on, led to it being pushed back.
When it premiered, I wasn't stunned by it either. I thought it was an okay TV series adaption. But I gave it a shot, because let's face it shows of film-to-TV adaptation, such as "Highlander: The Series" or "Stargate: SG-1" started very slow to, and turned into some of the finest fantasy television series of their generation.
I thought TSCC had a chance. And it did. It got better and better, and the character development of Headey's Connor just got better and better and "sexier" (I am totally into those kinda chicks, I gotta be honest. Women that can give me a sword-for-sword type battle personality-wise = pure hotness).
I loved the back-and-forth weird ass love angle between John and Summer Glau's terminator. Something so odd about it, but it was obvious he had feelings her "it" (or her?), and she was having some Alex J. Murphy/Robocop-isms of remembering what emotion was strictly for John. Other than Sarah being overly protective, it was a shame that weird angle wasn't pursued further, considering a terminator is supposed to be emotionless, and assuming "the parts" work. Regardless it was sadly dropped.
Wasn't nuts about Shirley Manson's T-1000 early on, but she became more and more fascinating as time went by. Especially by the series finale. Loved the 'Derek Reese' character, because I thought it created a crazy ass dynamic between Sarah and her past with Kyle. I thought they were going to pursue a love angle with them if it wasn't for Sarah being so, frankly, hateful towards him. But I think it was because of Kyle being the only man she ever loved... she didn't want to go there again and carry the death of another Reese on her head.
Regardless it was a show that got better and better, but I just knew it was never going to make the trip to being revived on SyFy. No way. The production was immense even for Fox, and it was TSCC's enormous cost that led to Fox pulling the plug, not it's ratings. The ratings were 'okay' for any other action series, but because of that pricetag they just didn't want anymore, and almost shitcanned the series before the pilot ever even aired. We're lucky we got the season-and-a-half that we did. At one point the cost overruns were so bad, that Fox was considering just condensing down the pilot to a one-off 2-hour TV movie just to try to air 'something', and because of some contractual deal with Warner Bros. were forced to go ahead with at least Season 1. They couldn't back out and they wanted to -- badly.
In the end, Fox never really wanted the series after that. It was 'the bastard' of the network, and was on life support from that point forward.
Years later, I can't remember where I read the article, but Fox regretted cancelling the series. Their hour-long dramas have been in decline ratings-wise so badly, that that is the reason Fox decided to revive "24" for a 9th season next year. Based on current ratings, TSCC would be a 'hit' today on Fox, considering Fox's biggest scripted series last year was "The Following" which pretty much averages the same ratings as TSCC, and I don't think the cost is that much different. 24 in Season 8, at it's lowest point in it's ratings existence, still got 2 million more viewers than anything on Fox (other than Idol).
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: The Terminator
I had a feeling that the budget was a big issue too. Thanks for the info man. Makes it sound alot more understandable I suppose. Just makes me think if AMC now in it's stride in terms of Walking Dead's ratings, the big praises of the final season of Breaking Bad and the series entirely, and other shows being featured that if this series was made in this period, AMC could of taken on this project and find a way to cut costs. But judging by the troubles prior they would of dodged a bullet. Still a guy can dream. It reminds me that Frank Darabont left the Walking Dead near the second season due to him wanting to do more effects and have a bigger budget for the cinematography and other details. Look at the first season and especially how much goes on in the first episode pilot and even the second episode...a ton of things being shown and way it's shot. I can see why he left or got canned. The whole show would of been in an eventual Connor Chronicles situation.
