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Re: The Wrestling thread
Breat hart on HHH:
"Bret Hart spoke with Wrestle Talk TV Extra. Here are some of the things he had to say about Triple H.
"I have a certain amount of respect for Triple H. I remember when he first came in, I remember commenting on stuff that he did. Because I'd usually give wrestlers my thoughts and try to help them on stuff... Triple H has always been a good wrestler. But great? What is he now, a 1,000 time world champion? How great really is he?
"I look at [CM] Punk... I can look at certain wrestlers and I go, this guy is an innovator. Like a Rey Mysterio, who's done stuff that no one has ever thought of before. Punk has done stuff -- really unique moves and you go, 'gee I've never seen anything like that before.' They innovate all the time, and they create new sequences and moves and things.
"Then you look at someone like Triple H. When I look at him -- he's always had a good look as far as his body went -- he always had a pretty muscular physique. But you look at someone like Hunter and you wonder, what has he really done. One move that he ever created that nobody ever saw before or some highspots or an idea for a match... He's mostly a guy that just showed up and they made him. He's always been a decent wrestler -- I would consider him a good wrestler and pretty talented. But great? I don't know, I don't think so.
"What has he ever done that's great? He's never had a great match, I don't think ever. Whenever I look at Triple H's matches, including the last one he had with Undertaker -- and I don't really mean it as a knock -- but I told myself before I watched it because I'm trying to like Paul now these days, that I want to see him do something to make me think he's got greatness in him.
"Before Triple H wrestled Undertaker last year, I remember watching it and going, 'I can picture the whole match in my head, I can tell you exactly what this match is going to be like and how it's going to go. And I remember watching it and it went exactly how I predicted it... I thought it was mediocre at best, maybe a 4 out of 10, or 3 out of 10.
"I think Paul is a little overrated... overrated for being great. I can sit here and tell you that there was one match that he ever had with anybody that I thought was great. It's kind of a shame, he should have a great match somewhere with somebody. And you'd think that he would have had it by now, but I don't think he's a great wrestler.""
uh oh... And he just squashed his beef with HBK. Here we go again... But I love his honesty:
I'm trying to like Paul now these days,
Re: The Wrestling thread
@Bono
I was actually a DX mark back in the day before I was an Austin mark. So i'm not delusional. You're perspective is your perspective. nWo was MASSIVE where I was at, and when I wore DX shirts I was called a pussy, and a fuckin' punk, and nWo signs flashed Scott Hall style in my face. DX didn't really catch on fire until 1998, when nWo got overblown.
jmo
Re: The Wrestling thread
Breat hart on HHH:
"Bret Hart spoke with Wrestle Talk TV Extra. Here are some of the things he had to say about Triple H.
"I have a certain amount of respect for Triple H. I remember when he first came in, I remember commenting on stuff that he did. Because I'd usually give wrestlers my thoughts and try to help them on stuff... Triple H has always been a good wrestler. But great? What is he now, a 1,000 time world champion? How great really is he?
"I look at [CM] Punk... I can look at certain wrestlers and I go, this guy is an innovator. Like a Rey Mysterio, who's done stuff that no one has ever thought of before. Punk has done stuff -- really unique moves and you go, 'gee I've never seen anything like that before.' They innovate all the time, and they create new sequences and moves and things.
"Then you look at someone like Triple H. When I look at him -- he's always had a good look as far as his body went -- he always had a pretty muscular physique. But you look at someone like Hunter and you wonder, what has he really done. One move that he ever created that nobody ever saw before or some highspots or an idea for a match... He's mostly a guy that just showed up and they made him. He's always been a decent wrestler -- I would consider him a good wrestler and pretty talented. But great? I don't know, I don't think so.
"What has he ever done that's great? He's never had a great match, I don't think ever. Whenever I look at Triple H's matches, including the last one he had with Undertaker -- and I don't really mean it as a knock -- but I told myself before I watched it because I'm trying to like Paul now these days, that I want to see him do something to make me think he's got greatness in him.
"Before Triple H wrestled Undertaker last year, I remember watching it and going, 'I can picture the whole match in my head, I can tell you exactly what this match is going to be like and how it's going to go. And I remember watching it and it went exactly how I predicted it... I thought it was mediocre at best, maybe a 4 out of 10, or 3 out of 10.
"I think Paul is a little overrated... overrated for being great. I can sit here and tell you that there was one match that he ever had with anybody that I thought was great. It's kind of a shame, he should have a great match somewhere with somebody. And you'd think that he would have had it by now, but I don't think he's a great wrestler.""
uh oh... And he just squashed his beef with HBK. Here we go again... But I love his honesty:
I'm trying to like Paul now these days,
Ouch. Hart tells the truth here. As long as Hart is still in the good graces of Vinnie Mac he has nothing to worry about. Now when Vince dies and HHH takes over that could cause him problems, but that's far down the line.
Re: The Wrestling thread
@Bono
I was actually a DX mark back in the day before I was an Austin mark. So i'm not delusional. You're perspective is your perspective. nWo was MASSIVE where I was at, and when I wore DX shirts I was called a pussy, and a fuckin' punk, and nWo signs flashed Scott Hall style in my face. DX didn't really catch on fire until 1998, when nWo got overblown.
jmo
Well there we have it. Things were heating up and were popular in areas and weren't in other's. The fact is though DX was popular from the begining in certain regions with HBK and HHH before Austin blew up the way he did. Without HBK and HHH doing what they did the attitude era never comes to be and Austin's character could never happen to that degree. HBK was ATTITUDE before the era was dubed Attitude Era. He and HHH broke down barriers and like I said, here where I lived WWF and DX were the shit. Nobody watched WCW, even when Bret went over nobody I knew switched. I watched both yet nobody I knew watched WCW and my buddies who had NEVER watched wrestling started geting into it because of the HBK/HHH version of DX. To the point THEY were the ones havig MOnday night RAW parties. It blew my mind.
So again to say WWF goes under without Austin is a huge stretch. It was a group effort because without HBK Austin's anti establishment character likely never happens and without he other talent surrounding them at the time there's nothing to work with. Had the talent level them been what it is now WWF woul've been history. Also fans paying attention(Canadian fans I guess ) saw that DX was doing something original where as nWo got incredibly stale, incredibly fast.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Breat hart on HHH:
"Bret Hart spoke with Wrestle Talk TV Extra. Here are some of the things he had to say about Triple H.
"I have a certain amount of respect for Triple H. I remember when he first came in, I remember commenting on stuff that he did. Because I'd usually give wrestlers my thoughts and try to help them on stuff... Triple H has always been a good wrestler. But great? What is he now, a 1,000 time world champion? How great really is he?
"I look at [CM] Punk... I can look at certain wrestlers and I go, this guy is an innovator. Like a Rey Mysterio, who's done stuff that no one has ever thought of before. Punk has done stuff -- really unique moves and you go, 'gee I've never seen anything like that before.' They innovate all the time, and they create new sequences and moves and things.
"Then you look at someone like Triple H. When I look at him -- he's always had a good look as far as his body went -- he always had a pretty muscular physique. But you look at someone like Hunter and you wonder, what has he really done. One move that he ever created that nobody ever saw before or some highspots or an idea for a match... He's mostly a guy that just showed up and they made him. He's always been a decent wrestler -- I would consider him a good wrestler and pretty talented. But great? I don't know, I don't think so.
"What has he ever done that's great? He's never had a great match, I don't think ever. Whenever I look at Triple H's matches, including the last one he had with Undertaker -- and I don't really mean it as a knock -- but I told myself before I watched it because I'm trying to like Paul now these days, that I want to see him do something to make me think he's got greatness in him.
"Before Triple H wrestled Undertaker last year, I remember watching it and going, 'I can picture the whole match in my head, I can tell you exactly what this match is going to be like and how it's going to go. And I remember watching it and it went exactly how I predicted it... I thought it was mediocre at best, maybe a 4 out of 10, or 3 out of 10.
"I think Paul is a little overrated... overrated for being great. I can sit here and tell you that there was one match that he ever had with anybody that I thought was great. It's kind of a shame, he should have a great match somewhere with somebody. And you'd think that he would have had it by now, but I don't think he's a great wrestler.""
uh oh... And he just squashed his beef with HBK. Here we go again... But I love his honesty:
I'm trying to like Paul now these days,
I'm always interested in hearing Bret's thoughts because he's probably my third favourite wrestler ever behind HBK and HHH. The thing with Bret though is I think he's kinda in la la land these days. I think he feels ripped off with how his career ended(and rightfully so) and he in turn he trys to diminsh other guys ad their talents quite often it seems. He views wrestling from one perspective and one perspective only. In ring technical ability. And let's be honest Bret is great technical wrestler but did Bret Hart ever have any REAL exciting matches? Not really. He had some great matches because he can tell a story really well AND he can make others look good but that is also something HHH does. He tells a story and he's more than adequate in the ring to have some kickass matches. He's not Shawn Michaels but he's no John Cena either. I love Bret Hart but I think Bret Hart rates Bret Hart a little too high. In my opinion HHH has had some pretty memorable matches. He's great seller and he works well with guys. Bret has as well but it's not like Bret's matches are eons above HHH's. Neither one of them are HBK but to say a guy like Ray Myterio is a better wrestler than HHH...... I don't know. In ring high acrobats sure, total package not a chance in hell and as time has gone on Bret Hart has lost sight of the fact that being a great wrestler is more than just having skill in the ring.
I saw an interview the other day where Bret said he could've gave Hogan the best match of his career. Really? Bret was gonna give Hogan a better match than HBK? I mean yeah HBK over sold everything in that match on purpose but like Bret says he could predict exactly how the HHH vs Taker match would go, I could predict exactly how the Bret vs Hogan match would go. Punch, punch, kick, stomp, hip toss, clothsline, sharpshooter, kick out, big boot, leg drop, 1, 2, 3,
Re: The Wrestling thread
I don't think Bret would ever job to Hogan. Neither would HBK before the whole "born again" stuff, but the latter part of his career he became the main event jobber and could care less about his current reputation or legacy. Bret does care. A lot.
I loved that moment at Wrestlemania when HBK took on John Cena and right before the match you can hear Shawn go up to the ref and say pretty loudly, "Can we get on with this? I've got a job to do!"
Re: The Wrestling thread
I don't think Bret would ever job to Hogan. Neither would HBK before the whole "born again" stuff, but the latter part of his career he became the main event jobber and could care less about his current reputation or legacy. Bret does care. A lot.
I loved that moment at Wrestlemania when HBK took on John Cena and right before the match you can hear Shawn go up to the ref and say pretty loudly, "Can we get on with this? I've got a job to do!"
I remember that too. Classic HBK
The thing with Bret is I think he really regrets not being a part of the attitude era. It was just firing up when Bret left. He went to WCW and they fucked him over cause they had no clue how to use him and then Goldberg ends his career with a kick to the head by mistake. A few years later Bret has a stroke and now even if he wanted to be involved he can't be. He's aged so badly the last 10 years.
Bret Hart will always be a legend but really his career ended right in his prime kinda like HBK's but the difference i HBK was able to return and do so at a high level. Bret never had the opportunity for a comeback and I bet that east at him. The moment he left to WCW his career was over and now the Attitude era in WWF(E) is arguably the greatest era in wrestling maybe aside from the Hogan era of the 80's. I still think Attitude Era was way more mainstream and Bret missed all of it.
I also think HBK knows his legacy is intact no matter what and it's not just linked to the "Screw Job". Bret's a legend but what's his legacy? the Montreal screw job? I think he has a LOT of regret. I know he wishes he had never gone to WCW. I know Bret was kind of against the "R" rated attitude era but he'd have been great in it. Bret Hart has some of the most memorable promo's ever and some of the absolute most real ones as well.
I think two of the best "rivalries" ever were Bret Hart vs HBK and Bret Hart vs Stone Cold. It was awesome to see when in the blink of a match Bret Hart became heel and Austin became a face. That was classic and it happened not via story line but just on pure emotion from the crowd and Bret recognized it and then amped up the heelness of it. Also there's never been a wrestler before or since who was so polarizing for the right reasons(maybe Cena for the wrong reasons). Bret was despised in the United States yet LOVED everywhere else especially Canada. It was pretty cool to see.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Yeah, he has aged badly. I noticed that this past weekend when he and HBK had that retrospective of the Montreal Screw Job.
I think the perfect time for HBK to have come back was when Y2J became the first undisputed champion with both titles and Steph turned on HHH and backed Jericho -- That should have been HBK. It would have taken their feud to that next level and they could have stretched it out a good year with some killer (pre born again) promos by HBK.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Triple H would been first undisputed champion had he not been injured at time, he actually would took Title of Austin at Summerslam 2001. That was plan for the Power Trip to split. I agree with Bret to an extent, but think Taker/Triple H at Wrestlemania 28 was pretty decent. Triple H's best year as wrestler was definitely 2000-2001.
WWE's path had Austin not been there, might be uncertain, but you guys are forgetting how WCW destroyed itself. Starcade 1997 Sting's massive return while their biggest star. What was supposed to be one of the biggest matches in wrestling history results in Sting getting pinned cleanly by Hulk Hogan with slowest fast count in wrestling history to satisfy someone's ego. Next year Goldberg who got biggest push of all time get's booked by Nash to lose to Nash at Starcade. Starcade 1999 main event Bret Hart vs Goldberg (yes that one) ends in 10 minutes after their 100th repeat of Montreal Screw job.
Starcade was their Wrestlemania and always pissed off everyone. Every WCW PPV had bullshit finish and every Nitro ended with silliness. They put Hogan/Bret dream match on free TV that lasted 5 mins. They put on the Warrior/Hogan rematch from Wrestlemania 6, that became one of worst match of all time. They lost their own audience and fans. Last few years of WCW got even worse.
Even if you say Austin saved WWF, WCW killed themselves.
