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Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
There is trolling. And there is difference of opinion. The two are not the same. And it has nothing to do with negativity. I think Mikka is a troll, without a doubt, when it comes to the main GNR boards. To the point where it gets to personal insults. Yet people will support and defend Mikka and not call him out because they agree with Mikka's "negative opinions." That's trollish behavior. It's not about someone having a negative opinion, I can get along with people who don't think it's GNR, it's when it goes past just being personal opinion and you're deliberately starting an argument (with almost every post about the new line up, Axl, whatever) or deliberately being a dick.
I think that nearly everyone at HTGTH is a troll. And they're all "positive."
I've never deducted karma from Mikka, even when he's called me an idiot and shit like that for the simple reason that I disagreed with him. And even though I've gotten negative karma for telling him to shut up for doing it to others. There's not an even handedness to people with just "negative opinions" about GNR to keep things civil. It is what it is.
Agreed. There is a distinct difference between a mere difference of opinion and a troll. I don't consider everyone who has a different view of what is and what is not GN'R a troll.
As an example, when someone consistently pops into threads on the new band, their tours or Chinese Democracy and makes negative comments for the mere sake of making negative comments or provoking a response, that is a troll. For example, basically every thread BBA has ever started on MyGNR. As a more concise example, a thread was started declaring that Amazon was selling CD at $1.95 and how that related to the law of supply and demand. This poster later claimed they were just "reporting" this information. The problem is this was done on a GN'R fan forum, in a particular section where it is well known that there are many, many fans of the new band. To top it off, comparisons were made to the price of Slash's album.
That is the quintessential example of trolling in my book. There are several people that I don't agree with when it comes to GN'R, but if they are respectful and courteous and don't pull that kind of flame-baiting shit, then I don't consider them trolls.
Ali
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
There is trolling. And there is difference of opinion. The two are not the same. And it has nothing to do with negativity. I think Mikka is a troll, without a doubt, when it comes to the main GNR boards. To the point where it gets to personal insults. Yet people will support and defend Mikka and not call him out because they agree with Mikka's "negative opinions." That's trollish behavior. It's not about someone having a negative opinion, I can get along with people who don't think it's GNR, it's when it goes past just being personal opinion and you're deliberately starting an argument (with almost every post about the new line up, Axl, whatever) or deliberately being a dick.
I think that nearly everyone at HTGTH is a troll. And they're all "positive."
I've never deducted karma from Mikka, even when he's called me an idiot and shit like that for the simple reason that I disagreed with him. And even though I've gotten negative karma for telling him to shut up for doing it to others. There's not an even handedness to people with just "negative opinions" about GNR to keep things civil. It is what it is.
I've seen the same thing go both ways. I think we tend (myself included) to have selective memory on some of these things.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
As a more concise example, a thread was started declaring that Amazon was selling CD at $1.95 and how that related to the law of supply and demand. This poster later claimed they were just "reporting" this information. The problem is this was done on a GN'R fan forum, in a particular section where it is well known that there are many, many fans of the new band. To top it off, comparisons were made to the price of Slash's album. That is the quintessential example of trolling in my book.
I can't agree with your assessment. It's not trolling to point out the obvious. Best Buy was trying to get rid of the stock they still had of the album. Amazon basically price-matched it, which they've been known to do on a lot of other products. I love buying Blu-ray from Amazon, especially if they get in a price war with Best Buy or Wal-Mart.
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
Naltav wrote:Or if you keep repeating that there is only one or no good song on CD several times in one day, to me that's trollish behavior.
I wouldn't say there is only one good song on CD. I'd say probably 10 out of 14 tracks are good, but only a few of them are great.
I'm guessing he was referring to me since I think I'm the only one that really has that opinion. Most either hate them all or like/love more than one. I think it's fairly safe to say that I go days at a time sometimes without posting anything and don't often make multiple posts in the same day, but that makes the story less interesting.
I think the fact that I go days at a time without posting, then sometimes respond to a couple posts with a smiliar response feeds that opinion of me, but I don't expect that to be considered. It's a cross I'm more than willing to bear for being outspoken on certain things.
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
There are several people that I don't agree with when it comes to GN'R, but if they are respectful and courteous and don't pull that kind of flame-baiting shit, then I don't consider them trolls.
Ali
This I would agree with. I try really hard to be respectful of others, and most of the time I think I am. Sometimes I'm not, but most of the time it's because I feel it's justified given the situation. Sometimes it's also just a misunderstanding (like calling Ali a she because it is a female name in my mind - I was actually trying to be respectful, but kept forgetting because it's just culturally a female name to me).
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
Ali wrote:As a more concise example, a thread was started declaring that Amazon was selling CD at $1.95 and how that related to the law of supply and demand. This poster later claimed they were just "reporting" this information. The problem is this was done on a GN'R fan forum, in a particular section where it is well known that there are many, many fans of the new band. To top it off, comparisons were made to the price of Slash's album. That is the quintessential example of trolling in my book.
I can't agree with your assessment. It's not trolling to point out the obvious. Best Buy was trying to get rid of the stock they still had of the album. Amazon basically price-matched it, which they've been known to do on a lot of other products. I love buying Blu-ray from Amazon, especially if they get in a price war with Best Buy or Wal-Mart.
I'm sorry, but it was trolling. Perhaps if you knew the poster's history/style you would have a better understanding of the situation. It was trolling, plain and simple in this case with this particular poster who takes almost every opportunity to deride Chinese Democracy and the new band. When I asked said poster why they were claiming they were just "reporting" the information (actually told them to be honest about what they were doing) - when the same poster started a thread a few months ago the same as this, merely substituting the name Best Buy for Amazon and got a negative reaction - he personally insulted me instead of addressing the issue at hand.
Bottom line, he started the exact same kind of thread a few months ago when Best Buy started selling the album at $1.99. Based off that, he knew what kind of reaction he was going to get. He started a nearly identical thread. He was choosing to provoke that kind of reaction. That is trolling, plain and simple.
Ali
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
I don't really see anyone who posts here as a troll - because even the posters with a strong slant to their opinion (negative or positive) regarding the current band, tend to contribute other thoughts (on the less contoversial issues) in random threads.
Which to me doesn't make them a troll - if they were actually a troll they would exist online only to start shit in threads..but most of us will also share our opinions on other GNR topics, and other non-GNR threads...so I see everyone here as a valid contributor overall rather than troublemakers.
I'd agree that there's moments where people on all sides could be a little more respectful too. And just because someone isn't fully a troll doesn't mean that everypost they've made is justified. I'm sure all of us frequent posters have made an inflamatory post or two at a band moment. But in the scheme of things I think we have a decent balance here.
As for the "what is the real GNR" topic you guys were talking about.
My personal view is that it no longer even matters anymore. Some people love the new band, some don't. But it's clear that the old band is loved and respected in society and will always be regarded as a formative band in history. I don't think the AFD, UYI legacy would be threatended by the new band succeeding and releasing a series of awesome albums too. It just creates more good stuff for us all if the new era picks up stream.
That's what i've never understood about these wars. Why is there even a need to choose? If I listen to CD and think it's a great album does that have to diminish my love for UYI or AFD? Or if I go see Slash and am blown away by his genius on guitar...do I have to suddenly not respect and marvel at bumblefoots abilities on the fretboard? To me these things are not exclusive, they can live together, i don't see a need to have to pick and choose which I like.
As for the name, I don't really care much either way personally, I sometimes wish it had been called something else, not for any reason to do with the legacy or what it means to be GNR or anything, or really for any reason to do with me, but soley for the reason that so many people do care about the name - and I think that causes them to become hostile to the music and the players. For example the thread on facebook from classic rock asking if GNR should tour or release an album. Nearly every reply is "It's not GNR"...but I think if this band was a "new" entity like VR people could be more free to enjoy it for what it is.
Like to me, Axl is a great singer, the guitarists in GNR are awesome guitarists...it's fun to see them play together, and I'd be excited to see what they'd record together....I don't really give a fuck what it's called - it's about how it will sound....and it's a shame that the name issue spoils most people from getting that far.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
...but I think if this band was a "new" entity like VR people could be more free to enjoy it for what it is.
Correct. It is a very good solo project, but I simply don't consider it GN'R.
Re: Azoff-Axl Lawsuit Settled: Includes "comprehensive touring agreement"
tejastech08 wrote:Naltav wrote:I've come to the conclusion that there are two major reason for "trolling" boards with this "it's-not-real-guns-it's-the-Axl-Rose-Solo-project-and-the-new-era-sucks" -mentality.
It's either from a place of passion. You know, the music from way back when hit you really hard at a time when some people really get into music and stick with it for life!
Or they have other personal issues that are depressing to deal with and are just angry a lot of the time. Both reasons are understandable.And Ali is right, there ARE less of those people here. You can prolly count them one one hand. Which is why this is my prefered board to post on. But boy, do they stand out!
It's not trolling. It's simply a difference of opinion.
No, anybody with a "difference of opinion" is a troll...at least to those that sit on the other side of the fence. One side doesn't mind discussing issues, the other side loves to call people on the other side trolls and other nice things. They complain about the negativity, but seem to ignore that there would be no discussion without it.
It goes both ways though. People with a negative view on things have called those on the positive side "nutswingers" and other clever little nicknames. It's no different. For the most part we all play together nicely and have friendly discussions that get a little heated at times, but we stay respectful. There are many instances though where the insults are thrown out wildly, and that's unfortunate.
