You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
When you have to rework The Blues and Better 3 times, IRS twice, and Oh My God at least twice, you don't have a ton of material to work with.
Neemo forgot a few songs, that have reliable sources, ala songs heard by media publications in some form...
1. The Blues
2. Chinese Democracy
3. Madagascar
4. Rhiad And The Bedouins
5. There Was A Time
6. Better
7. Catcher In The Rye
8. I.R.S
9. Sorry
10. Prostitute
11. This I Love
12. General
13. Seven
14. Leave Me Alone
15. Thyme
16. Oklahoma
17. Silk Worms
18. Ides of March
19. Zodiac
20. Quick Song *
21. If The World
22. Atlas Shrugged
James if their are at least 22 songs confirmed...
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
James if their are at least 22 songs confirmed...
well i dont belviev in all the songs that have been listed but there are at least 16 confirmed songs so that leaves only 2 copies of each track at most...but like i said dizzy or tommy mentioned 5 versio ns of each track....anyway i beleive there are 32 distinct songs like axl said in jan 06..to beleive in only 7-8 songs is just too much, there is no way they only have 8 tracks 
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
There was also the Metal Edge Fink interview from 99' where he mentions "Chinese Democracy" and "2000 Intentions" as different albums....
Two albums that were intended to be released at the same time... although the old -new- "Sweet Child O' Mine" would've been on it, and likely "Oh My God"....
It still suggests that they were doing something, since the new "AFD"/"Live Era" vocals thing were over with before this...
...And I don't think he was fucking around when Brian May was there in 98', so a hell of a lot of stuff got done in 97'-99', so why not after it...
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
I really like how this topic is hopping. Over the past few weeks, the GNR section was pretty much dead due to lack of news. However, as soon as we get a little crumb of information, we all like to chip in and voice our opinions. Great thread everyone! It's great to see everyone is still legitimately interested in this band.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
Bach's recent comments vary from Axl having 3 to 4 albums. Now I know Bach's comments aren't going to be accepted by some, I'm sceptical myself but unless he's flat out lieing it seems GNR have 30-40 songs in various stages of completion. Assuming all we've heard over the past few days is true we can say that 13 songs are done to the stage of being ready to be released. After that it's hard to say, what songs are working titles for something else, what's been scrapped etc? There's theories that If The World and Atlas Shrugged (a song Classic Rock has heard) are the same song, smae with Eulogy of a Broken Heart. Of course there's no proof of this but a few scenarios like this and it trims the number of songs considerably.
Axl said 36 songs, Bach has said 3/4 albums and CD supposedly has 13 tracks. When Axl said we're working on 36 songs I doubt he meant that some of the 36 were just different versions of the same songs, nor do I think when Baz says 3 albums he means 3 albums with some of the same songs on each album. There's 3 albums worth of new material, it's just hearing it that's the problem.
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
To me, the twining of this thread is a perfectly logical one, as by discussing the amount of individual songs, we are in effect debating on whether Universal could get their $13 million back with more than one album. And that takes us back to the source.
You're acting like 10 years was spent on the project. Various articles and Merck's statement shows that little time was spent on this.
Ou contrare, mon frere. Axl's the one who's said to have worked in the studio in spurts, but in between '98-00 for instance, they always had a full band in the house ('01 lineup sans Bucket & Brain, with Josh Freese), constantly recording. Axl was obviously pleased with the song structures they'd assembled with Sean Beavan (from numerous odd bars and jams), but the reception of OMG was likely what encouraged him to take a step back from the FX-heavy, grungy sound Beavan had brought to the table. That's when he started to spent time with both Bucket and Roy Thomas Baker, revising the Beavan tracks into more classic rock with Bucket serving as the all-purpose Slash surrogate - i.e. contributing all those epic guitar solos which are generally regarded as an intergral part of the vintage GNR sound as Axl's ever-recognizable vocals.
I believe this overhaul was the reason for Axl maintaining in his '99 interview that Robin's replacement is not really necessary for the time being. Once he got Bucket into the studio, he must've been like a kid in a candy store.
"Loder: How much stuff have you got for this new album? You've been working on this for a long time. Is there just tons of material?
Rose: We've been working on, I don't know, 70 songs. [...] The record will be about, anywhere from 16 to 18 songs, but we recorded at least two albums' worth of material that is solidly recorded. But we are working on a lot more songs than that at the same time... in that way, what we're doing is exploring so, you know, you get a good idea, you save it, and then maybe you come back to it later, or maybe you get a good idea and you go, "That's really cool, but that's not what we're looking for. Okay, let's try something new." You know, basically taking the advance money for the record and actually spending it on the record." - Axl, 99
Obviously, this comment is partially obsolete, as the Beavan was planned to consist of 16-18 songs. Also, there is enough material in the vault from the Axl/Robin/Paul Tobias/Tommy/Josh Freese/Dizzy lineup to span over two separate albums. Even if they'd never created a new song since then, that still would make it more than one album, or mere 13 tracks.
Also interesting how Axl used to say they'd come up with something new and it knocks the old stuff off the list, yet here we are in 08 and the same songs minus Silkworms are still in play. Logic would suggest that a different version of a song knocked an older version off the list.
Which list are you talking about? On the setlist, your logic is correct. I'd say the RIR3 versions of The Blues, Maddy and CD still carry within them Sean Beavan's imprint; they're very bare and stripped-down, relying heavily on pure emotion. His work on the ballads in Marilyn Manson's Mechanical Animals is quite similar, actually. I wouldn't dare to coin Beavan on the basis of this assumption, but he quite often seems to push the bands (and particularly the vocalists) 'rage' further in faster songs, turning the soundscape into a grinding wheel, while on the slower, softer songs, he does the polar opposite, stripping down the unnecessary layers, leaving the players (and particularly the vocalist) almost stark-naked, so to speak.
'02 versions have more RTB in them, as The Blues in particular was growing a bit too mushy for many people (myself included). The leaks and latest boots are Axl's, which unfortunately doesn't make me feel all that comfortable with the fact that he's been the main producer for six years. I actually have a hard time trying to sit through the studio version of The Blues, when I just keep remembering the '01 version. But Axl makes music on his own terms (as if there were still doubts about this), and there's really no point in playing an older version if on the studio the song, whenever released, already sounds completely revamped.
I do admit that many songs have been long in the game (Prostitute has been regularly mentioned between '98 and '06!). But what does it tell you, exactly? If the band had two albums worth of material (which could considered if not finished then atleast cohesive as individual songs), while another 30+ songs were still in the process of being hammered into shape, they'd first of all have two lists. The first list consists of the songs that receive most of their time. Various takes of different instrumentals parts are recorded, tried and compared. Lyrics are written, vocals are recorded. Rough mixes are made. Axl keeps looking for the ideal combinations, starting from very broad strokes and slowly spiralling in to what he thinks is the best of what the song could be. Basing on Axl's comments in both '99 and '06, I'd say the first list, 'the A-list', currently contains those 32 songs.
"I don't want to be in a situation again where I have to depend on other people and have [to] start all over. So we have material that we think is too advanced for old Guns fans to hear right now and they would completely hate, because we were exploring the use of computers [along with] everybody really playing their ass off and combining that, but trying to push the envelope a bit. [...] I wouldn't say it's like, you know, that we recorded a double album, or that we have all of our scraps to be the second one. There is a distinct difference in sound. The second leans probably a little more to aggressive electronica with full guitars, where the first one is definitely more guitar-based." - Axl, 99
As Axl was wisened up by the departures of Slash and Robin, there is likely a terrifying pile of various guitar parts by Bucket in the vault. All of which, mind you, could be implemented to future songs. Therefore, there's almost certainly enough material to get started with the additional songs, as I'd imagine would be done whenever they'd actually get around to releasing CD itself. I read Axl's comment on 32 songs in the sense that they have two albums worth of "solidly recorded" material (again), which in my book translates as the whole nine yards - far enough in the making to justify various rough mixes.
And yeah, he addressed the very issues James' mentioning in Leeds '02.
"There's been some concern. That if we play five or six new songs, then there can't that many more on the album. Au contraire, mon frère. We're just playing the songs we're not considering putting out as singles or anything. So, you'll get 18 songs, and about 10 extra tracks. And when that, when the record company feels that has run its course, then you'll get it all over again. By that time, I should be done with the third album. So we'll see if all goes well boys and girls!" - Axl
That's a total of 28 songs, with 18 on the album, as was planned as early as in '99. Again, that's also a number you might describe as "two albums worth of material".
The pattern that seems to emerge here is one where two major batches of songs were created when Sean Beavan and Paul Tobias were still well in the fold, before Bucket and Brain had showed up. There were these initial songs, constantly around 30 of them, out of which Axl decided he'd compile atleast CD itself. While the song structures have been more or less the same while producers and players have kept shifting, Axl's idea of what CD consists of was significantly altered when, in between '02 and '06, he narrowed the amount of tracks from (16-)18 to 13.
Now, whether or not one wants to take Baz's rambling about a trilogy seriously, this assumption actually supports such an idea. If the majority of the A-list existed as early as '99, Axl's had the time to figure out how he'd like to connect various songs. He might've had broad ideas on how the approach the B-list, and might've done some work on it simply to get a feel to the material. If one is to say The General is on the "third album", to me that translates as a pre-written piece to otherwise currently aloof material. By this I mean that The General would be considered a cornerstone to what they'd go after when focusing more intently on the B-list. If one plans to do three interconnected albums, it actually makes sense to get the opener completely over and done, have more than half of the second one laid down, and keep the third open, while maintaining a clear goal or direction towards which the whole is moving.
Come to think of it, Axl's been mentioned to have spent a lot of time reading literature as it apparently helps his writing. One could raise the possibility that he'd written what one might call a storyline for music that'd pass through several albums, and that he's been laboring over expressing various moments ('scenes') through both the lyrics and the music, as they should obviously work in unison and evoke certain emotions/associations. At the same time, he'd have to keep in mind what would be a good direction for GNR from a financial point of view, so he'd have keep balancing in between these two aspects of the production. In that sense, late-night jamming and freestyling of the players might actually be a good idea - provided Axl would give them guidelines of what events, feelings or thoughts he'd like the music to express. Given his history in Sedona with Yoda, he might be foolhardy enough to try and create the basis of the songs by attempting to tap into the subconciousness of the musicians.
Crikey. Soon I'll talking about three unreleased albums through the basics of Aristotle's Poetics. I'm getting way ahead of myself, so I'll stop!
All n' all: I don't think Axl has a shortage of available songs (or song material), or lyrics for that matter. His main problem appears to be figuring out the overall sound of CD, which would in varying degrees also affect any subsequent album, should there be a connection between them.
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
this is old info from pilferk @ htgth
C.D. cost breakdown with a price of $15.99:
- $0.17 Musicians' unions
- $0.80 Packaging/manufacturing
- $0.82 Publishing royalties
- $0.80 Retail profit
- $0.90 Distribution
- $1.60 Artists' royalties
- $1.70 Label profit
- $2.40 Marketing/promotion
- $2.91 Label overhead
- $3.89 Retail overhead
i'll comment more on it later
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
Robin Fincke quote from May 2000
But even after working endlessly on the GN'R album, Finck is unable to speculate on how it's going to turn out.
"I'd helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records," he says. "Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs '” from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between."
But, he notes, "most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven."
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
I didn't read all of this thread. but from the earlier posts I agree with DTJ that Eddie Trunk probably has somewhat more merit than alot of these blogs & websites. Also, there was that guy on Fuse TV a few months ago (there's a thread about him on here somewhere, I'll look for it) who said something similar. The "Universal is trying to sell it to another label" is interesting, but one has to look at what Monkeychow says and if no one is buying GnR off them, they are just deciding to not release it?? That doesn't make sense.
It's better to make $5 million off a $15 million dollar investment than not make anything. Plus, for a corporation, the money is already spent!! So if they release it tomorrow, they are not going to lose $10million dollars tomorrow!! They already lost that, they are just trying to gain back as much as they can.
Maybe they are looking into a strategy, possibly whether to release songs in advance on iTunes, then release the full cd the following week or two, when to release it (springtime, summer) timing it away from Metallica. Maybe Axl is asking them to wait and HE will buy it off of them, once he gets enough $$ & investors. That might be why he toured the last few years, now he has most of the money, he just asking investors (rich wealthy people in LA) to lend him a few mil to complete the purchase. That's a thought.
Anyway, my only question is if it is turned in, and the label is causing the delay, why wouldn't GnR mention that on their website. I really can't see a gag-0order being imposed on that, it would either have to be in the bands contract (which I wouldn't think happens) or in the lawsuit, but a judge would have to impose that, and I can't see a judge caring enough about a rock band to do that. I dunno, I don't think that's the case. Also, it's possible Eddie Trunk just read it online somewhere, and is regurgitating information. Maybe there's some merit to it though, sometimes where there's smoke there's fire.
Re: Eddie Trunk on Chinese Democracy
Ah yes Neemo,
I vaguely remembered that breakdown existed and was starting hope it'd surface here as well. As it stands, Universal would get
- $0.82 Publishing royalties (as they own the rights)
- $1.70 Label profit
with a net profit total of $2.52 on each disc sold on $15.99. With these numbers, album(s) from the CD sessions should sell a total of over 5 million units. In this day and age, it's an awful lot for one album, considering that the pricing would have to remain on a fixed sum. While Contraband sold over 4 million units worldwide, and GH was a tremendous success at any rate, there's no telling whether the pricing was consistent in different countries. I understand that particularly GH was a bargain-priced release, which no doubt helped the sales.
If Universal gets two albums, they'd need around 2,5 million units to shift for both, and would still control the publishing rights. Therefore, if the music's good, they'd still have a good chance to break even, despite not necessarily getting all the money back from the album sells alone.
