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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
No, there's no realistic option - assuming you're a ruthless businessman who wants to break up Axl's band and force him to tour with other GN'R guitarists - other than bringing back Slash.
Great post, and I agree with everything you've written, although I'm not so sure about this bit:
despite the fact that Izzy was, ironically, more crucial to the original line-up than Slash
I'm really not sure about that. Don't get me wrong, I have huge respect for Izzy. He played a massively important role as one of the primary songwriters, and moreover, apparently as Axl's better friend in the band a role that seemed somewhat empty after him. So he's definately a key element. But, I also think, primarily what everyone remembers about GNR is Axl's unusal vocal abilities, and slash's distinctive guitar. Without either of those factors the old GNR would have been nothing like it was and a totally different band.
Even now, in modern times, when we can have a GNR without slash that works (for some of us), had slash's solos and riffs *never* been in the band, had it never had those influences, it would be almost unrecgonisable almost to what it is.
All i'm saying is Izzy is great, but I don't think he's more important to the forumla than slash was, although maybe we're arguing about if we need sugar and flour to make a cake more!
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
madagas wrote:put Slash in for Dj....end of discussion.
I can't see that working 'cause of Slash's ego.
And at the risk of sounding like a nutswinger to slash, rightly so I feel.
I remember someone from the old line up, I think it was izzy, talking about when Axl asked him to become an employee and he said something like (paraphrased NOT an exact quote) "right, so this thing I helped build, it's not mine anymore then?".
But whatever he said, I always felt that's the heart of the issue with the old band. To some extent they tried to play ball. Duff didn't leave until 1997 or whatever, and there was that period where Slash sort of came back for a month or whatever it was around the snakepit period and it still didn't work.
But while I'm a MASSIVE fan of Axl. If you look at it from the perspective of the old band members, what they're being asked to swallow is pretty hard for a person to do.
Slash was the lead guitarist in GNR. And in his tenure as lead guitarist he made himself some of the most famous guitarists in the world, and, with the help of the other members, pushed GNR to a level be one of the greatest bands of all time, and definately the biggest band in the world for a period of time.
And he was one of the team that did that from the ground up, from the days of living on the street with nothing and not getting paid. So why in hell would be want to be treated as an employee, or as if he is a session muso, and have other guitarists, even if they are more technically adept, fill his position as lead guitar in the band and watch from the back of stage as they play the songs that made the band famous, and the very solo notes that he wrote.
It's not ego in a bad way, it's just that it would be beyond human reasonableness for anyone to want to do that. Legally GNR is Axl's thing, and I'll give credit that he's taken it to a new place, and the new music is really awesome despite the absence of the old guys, but I'm just saying that surely for dudes like Duff and Slash, it's not that they want to get back in "Axl's Band" it's that they want to agian be recgonised that it's THEIR band as much as it ever was Axl's band. And I think that's the reason you won't see Slash playing with another lead guitarist. It would be like having Axl share singing duties with a replacement lead singer. It would be disrespectful to his role as a founding member and indeed what he's always brought to the band.
So while for fans, I think the idea of a Bumblefoot/Slash line up would be perfect (Slash playing his stuff, Bumble playing the chinese solos and filling in some rhythm stuff), I just can't see it happening, as it's illogical to what GNR means to everyone from the old lineup except maybe Axl. And, it's hard to forget, Axl would choose death over working with Slash anyway.
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
Azoff fired Robin? Bwhahahahaa, yeah right. Azoff doesn't have that authority, and he and Robin know it. Only W. Axl Rose has that authority. Now him firing Robin and an effort to bring back Slash... why? Something tells me Axl would've considered calling Buckethead, before calling Slash, and Azoff most likely would already know this ahead of time. Or the VIABLE option of bringing back Izzy, putting him on rhythm, and sticking Fortus on lead. There are other options out there, before bringing back Slash, and Axl knows this. I don't think he's so dumb as to fall for all of this BS that Azoff was "supposedly" selling.
No, there's no realistic option - assuming you're a ruthless businessman who wants to break up Axl's band and force him to tour with other GN'R guitarists - other than bringing back Slash. A businessman like Azoff would look at what the "general public" consider to be GN'R, and in the minds of the general public, GN'R is Axl and Slash plus some other guys.
The general public usually latches onto two members of a band as the "essential" components, the iconic members of the band. Generally, they're the singer and the lead guitarist; everyone else in the band is disposable. Mick could not tour as The Rolling Stones without Keith, Page could not go on the road claiming to be Led Zeppelin without Plant. Queen had a hell of a hard time convincing people that Paul Rogers was a worthy replacement for Freddie Mercury, but no-one other than hardcore Queen fans gave a shit about the fact that John Deacon wasn't on bass. Drummers and bassists are pretty much disposable (unless they're Flea in the Chilis); note that Page, Plant and Jones were able to get away with calling themselves Led Zeppelin, even though they had the wrong Bonham in the drum stool. There would be a fucking uproar if Liam Gallagher toured as Oasis with the members of Beady Eye, even though they're the most recent Oasis line-up minus Noel Gallagher; by the same token, were Liam and Noel to get back together with a bunch of other musicians backing them, they could quite happily call themselves Oasis.
Axl could tour with his current band, replacing any one of the guitarists with Slash, and all the naysayers, the idiot DJs slating him and his band, the watercooler gossip, would just melt away. Because GN'R is, as far as the vast majority of the record-buying public are concerned, Axl and Slash. If Axl brought Izzy in as a regular member, the hardcore fans would go mental - but the general public couldn't care less (despite the fact that Izzy was, ironically, more crucial to the original line-up than Slash). If Axl brought Buckethead back, some fans - a subset of a subset of fans - would go mad for it, but Buckethead doesn't have the iconic resonance with the general public that Slash does.
So if you were a ruthless businessperson looking to tour a "reunited" GN'R, you would want Axl and Slash up there. Duff and Izzy would be bonuses, and no-one really gives a toss who's playing the drums (sorry Matt and Steven. And Josh. And Brain. And Frank.). The trouble for those ruthless businesspeople is, Axl doesn't want to play their game.
Agreed. I've said for awhile that Axl, Slash, Ron, Richard, Tommy, Frank, Dizzy & Chris would be considered a "reunion" by all the casual fans. The wouldn't have a clue about the backing band past those two guys, and I was told "no way", "not a chance", "no way would that be considered a reunion"... well it's good to see someone else "gets it". Axl & Slash = GN'R. Always and forver. Axl-only = new Guns. Slash-only = VR or Snakepit, or some other incarnation. But those two forces together, make GN'R.
That Queen analogy was a good one too. Brian & Roger go around calling themselves "Queen", when in fact only half of the original band is even there.
Axlin08 wrote:WM listening to the album and turning it down... I don't buy that. How can WM sit down and listen to a record and go "there's no hit".
There'™s one constant to the music business, a hit is a hit. And Chinese Democracy my friend, is not a hit.
Well thank you HESH. 
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
I think a lineup of Axl, Slash, BBF, Duff (Rhythm guitar mostly), Tommy, and whatever drummer and keyboards/effects guys you want could work and would allow them to play the entire catalog almost flawlessly, but I think it's a moot point. At that rate, we may as well go dream lineup and say Axl, Slash, BH, Izzy, Duff, and whatever drummer/keys you want. Neither is going to happen anytime soon, and if there is a reunion someday, I believe it will be a full reunion of the UYI recording lineup.
I have always said that the best option is if they had VR with Myles singing open, Slash/Duff/Izzy/Tommy/BBF/whoever else has solo stuff next, then the CD band playing their stuff and the AFD/UYI band playing their stuff. They could have their own mobile festival if they wanted. 6+ hours of music almost every GnR fan would love. That would sell and it would be as close to everybody winning as we could possibly get.
HA! I must have missed this before. I have thought about this often. A huge festival with all Gnr related bands and their bastard sons. If I could give Karma, I would!:beer:
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
elevendayempire wrote:Fortus on rhythm (he's more reliable than Izzy)
PLEASE. Fortus couldn't write a tune with a gun to his head while Izzy can whip up killer tunes in three shakes of a lamb's tail, and can do it quicker when working with Axl. Izzy's stage presence shits all over the Jordanesque jumping abilities of Fortus. At shows, no one cares about Fortus while Izzy gets a huge pop from the crowd.
Fortus isn't even a wart on Izzy's ass.
James, I know the red mist descends whenever Fortus' name is mentioned on here, but if you'd read my post I never said that Fortus was better than Izzy, I said he was more reliable from the perspective of our hypothetical ruthless businessman. Izzy is wont to get bored and wander off into the desert at a moment's notice; Fortus can be relied upon to actually turn up to the gigs. Izzy doesn't like the hassle of touring with a large-scale production and backed out of VR because of that (and because he didn't want to work with egotistical frontmen again).
He's happy enough dropping in on individual gigs and contributing in the studio, though; fair enough, but you need a touring guitarist. I'd rather have Fortus up there than Kushner or Gilby or whoever the fuck is in Slash's touring band at the moment. Fortus has the on-stage energy that Slash used to have before he had the pacemaker fitted...
Anyways, it's all hypothetical and isn't likely to ever happen. 
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
Hell, he played with John 5 at that Slash & Friends gig and pretty much confined the guy to rhythm work only...
Hmmm... is that why John 5 played the Crazy Train solo then at that gig? Get your facts straight! 
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
elevendayempire wrote:Hell, he played with John 5 at that Slash & Friends gig and pretty much confined the guy to rhythm work only...
Hmmm... is that why John 5 played the Crazy Train solo then at that gig? Get your facts straight!
Yes, I know John 5 played the Crazy Train solo at that gig; that's why I said "pretty much" confined him to rhythm work. A complete waste of the guy's talents, of course, but God forbid that anyone should be allowed to outshine Slash at his gig...
Slash also let Kushner play the odd solo on some of the covers at VR gigs, but 99.9% of the time, the spotlight stays on Slash. He's crafted an image for himself as the "guitar hero", the iconic member of the band, and part of that involves making sure that he dominates the stage and gets almost all of the solo spots, occasionally throwing his backing guitarist a bone here and there.
Compare that to Axl's GN'R, where there's more of a share and share alike approach among the three guitarists. Of course, that just means the naysayers crow about it "taking three people to fill Slash's shoes," which is patently bollocks.
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
Well, I think it made sense for Slash to play the solo spots at the Slash & Friends gig, because lets face it, the gig was showcasing Slash, regardless of how great a guitarist John 5 is.
And Slash is a known lead guitarist, that's where he shines the most, so of course he's not gonna take a back seat to anyone else, even in VR.
- metallex78
- Rep: 194
Re: Axl fires back at Irv with lawsuit
But this thread is about Axl isn't it? Woops!
