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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
^ Buzz to me the mistake in your reasoning is the "he had his one shot" - the very thing you accuse the band of being a nostalga act - is to me what will always give them another shot to a degree.
While I know many hate them on here, take a band like Bon Jovi. They have some massive hits most people know - "You give love a bad name", "Bad Medicine" etc. Now I feel that they could release 100 shit albums, but the day that Jon writes another hit, all that is forgiven. When they have current sucessful song everyone comes out as a Bon Jovi fan, the rest of the time they're has beens etc. But it seems to happen sometimes.
To me the older Axl gets the more likely people are to accept him in that way. He's got a distinctive voice. You know it's him. People are always going to remember Sweet Child and November Rain and so on....and while many people want that band back, if Ax made a solo track with anyone on earth, and happened to stumble on that magic that makes a hit song a hit song again....I think people will come back.
Not saying this will happen. But I think at a level of fame like Axl has you get more than one shot in life to write a good song. Like an unknown band makes an album that sucks and they're fucked. But if you've laid a golden egg in the past, like Axl has (all be it with some help from the AFD boys) and there is a section of the public and media that will forver give you a chance to lay some more!
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
I'll grant a large portion of the general public is always going to be reunion minded...but I also think Axl is always just one gem of a song away from "forgiveness" in the media. They think he's crazy or whatever but they love that shit to sell their newspapers. If songs like maddy can convert some of us guys, who as long term fans from the past have more reason than anyone to be hostile to changes, then it's only ever going to take one of those songs that captures the hearts of the world to change everyones mind. Of course Axl may not want to do this nor perhaps is it in his best interests to try. Who knows. I'm just saying this idea that no one is interested in Axl's songs is a bit crazy. The world isn't waiting on edge like in 1990 maybe...but people will pay attention when GNR releases stuff, that's for sure.
It has nothing to do with the general public wanting a reunion. While it is true that a reunion would generate much more interest than any new material from this group, the interest in that isn't even going to be what it would have been a few years ago. people have moved on. Kids don't want a 50 year old to save them from todays shitty music, they want todays shitty music.
I love There Was a Time. It is right there with Estranged for me in best GnR songs ever. Having said that, no amount of songs like that are going to win people over. There isn't a market for that type of music. CD sold from curiosity - that curiosity is gone. The general public has spoken: New GnR is okay at best. People don't want to think about the music they listen to. They want boring music that entertains more than anything that provides quality.
Sure, there are exceptions to the rule. There are some people at various sites that love the new band and everything they've done. There are even a few "general public" people that were surprised and love CD. I'll give you that. The reality is that a small group of interested people can't change how the general public perceives something. Then general public perceives Axl as a crazy has-been. No new songs are ever going to change that.
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
^ Buzz to me the mistake in your reasoning is the "he had his one shot" - the very thing you accuse the band of being a nostalga act - is to me what will always give them another shot to a degree.
While I know many hate them on here, take a band like Bon Jovi. They have some massive hits most people know - "You give love a bad name", "Bad Medicine" etc. Now I feel that they could release 100 shit albums, but the day that Jon writes another hit, all that is forgiven. When they have current sucessful song everyone comes out as a Bon Jovi fan, the rest of the time they're has beens etc. But it seems to happen sometimes.
To me the older Axl gets the more likely people are to accept him in that way. He's got a distinctive voice. You know it's him. People are always going to remember Sweet Child and November Rain and so on....and while many people want that band back, if Ax made a solo track with anyone on earth, and happened to stumble on that magic that makes a hit song a hit song again....I think people will come back.
Not saying this will happen. But I think at a level of fame like Axl has you get more than one shot in life to write a good song. Like an unknown band makes an album that sucks and they're fucked. But if you've laid a golden egg in the past, like Axl has (all be it with some help from the AFD boys) and there is a section of the public and media that will forver give you a chance to lay some more!
How do you compare Jon Bon Jovi and Axl? Bon Jovi is the all-american guy that people have always loved and Axl is generally considered a little nuts at best (even by his biggest fans). While Bon Jovi certainly had periods where they weren't as popular and a lot of his music is cheesey pop, Bon Jovi was never looked at as being the same as Axl.
And lets look at Bon Jovi's down time: how many "bad" albums did he release? What did he do to come back? What did he do once he came back? The situations are totally different, and it all starts with Bon Jovi and how he markets himself and his band.
If Axl had a clue about marketing and was willing to really put himself out there, is it possible that he could have a legitimate comeback? Absolutely - the band he has now is talented and seems to be made up of mostly likeable people. I just don't see Axl changing his stripes any more than Bon Jovi has. They are who they are and that is why they are successful in someways and not as successful in others. I'll take Axl's music over Bon Jovi anyday (and I generally like Bon Jovi), but Axl doesn't do anything to give himself a chance of succeeding. It has little to do with the music outside of the music being a little too complex for the general public.
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
Axl has succeeded AND is succeeding in the music industry. He is succeeding right now despite himself. Let's not get carried away. Is he an underachiever? Yes. But, he is still making a lot of money for himself, his bandmembers, the promoters, and the record label.
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
Axl has succeeded AND is succeeding in the music industry. He is succeeding right now despite himself. Let's not get carried away. Is he an underachiever? Yes. But, he is still making a lot of money for himself, his bandmembers, the promoters, and the record label.
I think most of the time his achievements right now are compared to either what GNR did before or what could have been.
I'd say he's still doing fairly good for himself. Not nearly as good as could be, because look how the last US tour went. 
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
war wrote:there is plenty of interest in new material.
From who? There wasn't any interest in the "new material" in 2002 or any time after that. So a few people at a few dwindling GnR sites want new material? Big deal. That isn't going to get a record company to release an album.
It's over. Accept it. This is officially a notalgia act. There's nothing wrong with that, but some of us accepted that a long time ago and others still haven't. It's okay to be a nostalgia act. If the long awaited CD didn't register, I don't know what makes anybody think some magical new album is going to. He had his one shot. People now know what to expect, and the reception was lukewarm at best. Now the curious won't even buy it, so who are you going to sell to? 10,000 hardcore internet fans? Good luck with that.
same old mistake ....anything less than UY is a failure and so cd is a failure and anything else will be as well.
cd has sold close to 3 million copies ytd.
cd was a significant monetary success, along with the tour, fanfare, etc.
oh an i don't think that there are that many gnr forum junkies across the web.
assuming the fact that there is intent on axl's and the label's behalf to release more material proves that gnr is doing just fine, considering the reality that a second album would have to be amazing in order to come close in sales to CD.
you can call this and that a failure all you want but you are an arm-chair quarterback and your analysis is irrelevant to gnr and the mighty dollar. if the label and axl/gnr think it is a success - IT IS.
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
buzzsaw wrote:war wrote:there is plenty of interest in new material.
From who? There wasn't any interest in the "new material" in 2002 or any time after that. So a few people at a few dwindling GnR sites want new material? Big deal. That isn't going to get a record company to release an album.
It's over. Accept it. This is officially a notalgia act. There's nothing wrong with that, but some of us accepted that a long time ago and others still haven't. It's okay to be a nostalgia act. If the long awaited CD didn't register, I don't know what makes anybody think some magical new album is going to. He had his one shot. People now know what to expect, and the reception was lukewarm at best. Now the curious won't even buy it, so who are you going to sell to? 10,000 hardcore internet fans? Good luck with that.
same old mistake ....anything less than UY is a failure and so cd is a failure and anything else will be as well.
cd has sold close to 3 million copies ytd.
cd was a significant monetary success, along with the tour, fanfare, etc.oh an i don't think that there are that many gnr forum junkies across the web.
assuming the fact that there is intent on axl's and the label's behalf to release more material proves that gnr is doing just fine, considering the reality that a second album would have to be amazing in order to come close in sales to CD.
you can call this and that a failure all you want but you are an arm-chair quarterback and your analysis is irrelevant to gnr and the mighty dollar. if the label and axl/gnr think it is a success - IT IS.
Agreed the world is what you think it is, and if the guys with the power in this think its a success you can be sure there is more to come
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
Buzzsaw, your constant attempts to be a "moodkiller", seem so meaningless. The majority of fans and PRESS who have attended the shows since the tour started late last year, have praised the band.
What you get out of pissing on this positive era, is besides me.... 
Lighten up, and focus on something positive instead. Didn't you say somewhere that you hoped to be able to see Axl perform "sometime before you die" (or something like that)?
Well, if things keep on going like they are now, there is a good possibility he will be in your neck of the woods pretty soon.... That's a good thing!
Re: Rumors building up regarding CDII release date...
Anything that involves the Guns N' Roses name will always generate interest.
This time however, the band will have to step it up a bit with maybe some radio-ready songs, that can be hits to help drive a new album's sales. Axl will also HAVE to promote.
I know everyone "who cares about album sales, who cares about hits, who cares if it succeeds, I just want a new album"... well one thing you fail to understand is that this is a capitalist business. If Guns doesn't make money, they don't get money (as in record contracts) to record that new material you so desperately want. Music Biz 101.
Axl relied on the name GN'R and the mythic name of Chinese Democracy in order to sit at home, not promote (whether it was him or UMG), and there wasn't a single hit on that album. CD & Better were the closest and they might've had a chance in the early 2000's, but it was too different. Not dated, but just too different.
To recap, they're gonna need a couple hits (a rocker and a ballad), they're gonna need promo, they're gonna need to tour, and if those things combined with the Guns N' Roses brand name... I see no reason why they couldn't see a Platinum album, maybe Double Plat if it really takes off.
