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Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
I never heard of Beta or Fernando until i came here (I did'nt follow the whole CD saga) but i don't see how they can be blamed for the woes of GN'R. I mean Axl is an adult and as such is repsonsible for his own decisions. Thus the state of GN'R currently is solely at the feet of Axl and nobody else.
Beta Lebeis' stature within the GNR business entity is a well-known secret amongst those who either worked closely with the band during the CD recording process or had the connections to find out about it when investigative journalists were still interested on the album. Long story short: Beta and Axl hooked up immediately following Axl's breakup with Stephanie Seymour; Beta was the Seymour babysitter and, apparently, got to know Axl rather well, given his strong affinity towards the child. Initially, Beta was the housekeeper, personal ear to lend and shoulder to cry on.
However, things started changing within the GNR infrastructure following the UYI tour. Axl, Slash and Duff went their separate ways after an attempt to record a follow-up album in '94. Duff had health problems, Slash turned into his once-ditched, would-be Snakepit album, Gilby was fired, Axl secluded to his mansion and was likely visiting his spiritual advisor in Sedona every now and then. Progressively, things kept turning worse, leading to Axl disbanding the partnership and with a bit of legal juggling, turned everyone else in contractees.
By late 1997, Axl was alone. All he had from the UYI days were Dizzy and Beta. He'd already put Dizzy in the studio with Paul Huge, and Beta slowly grew to be a more influential character in Axl's realm; the main thing to understand here is that Axl's seclusion meant someone needed to attend to his daily matters, arrange things for him, etc. Beta was the one person Axl trusted the regulation of the majority of his interaction with the outside world. A practical decision at the time, undoubtedly, but power has a funny way with people.
By 2001, Beta had - in eight years - gone from Axl's housekeeper to his closest confidant, and as she was the one person who had regular contact with Axl, you can imagine how significant a figure she was. There was a multi-million dollar recording project, and no-one at the label, the band or the studio crew was allowed to approach Axl with the same All Access pass as Beta. This is not demonizing Beta, simply stating the facts around the situation.
Here's where it gets controversial. Beta's personal agendas or opinions regarding some other people related to the project, the band or Axl himself have never been proven one way or the other. But different parties maintain that by surrendering his public relations to one channel, Axl relinquished a part of his personal freedom of thought by sufficing to second-hand accounts. Obviously, when not meeting someone personally, rather than taking a third person's word on what's really going on, you get different results.
A certain A&R man has insinuated that Beta deliberately sabotaged his working relationship with Axl, which alone, consequently, hindered the work on CD for months if not years. When looking at the situation as a whole, I personally have to admit such a scenario is not completely far-fetched. Of course, nothing can be proven, but Mrs Lebeis' personal conduct in online conversations with the fans - reacting only to negative comments - leaves a lot to be desired and sends shivers down my spine as I wonder how such an attitude would translate into working as a middle-woman in between Axl and others.
Axl, naturally, is to blame in the sense that it's him who choose to be pampered and left into his mansion, as opposed to taking a hands-on approach to all things GNR. But as they say, when the cat is gone...
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
... Mrs Lebeis' personal conduct in online conversations with the fans - reacting only to negative comments - leaves a lot to be desired and sends shivers down my spine...
Well as I said this is all a bit tacky imo but, if that was your mom, which it seems like she's kind of become a surrogate mom/elder sister whatever, and nothing wrong with that, how would your mom react if she kept seeing you attacked in the most outrageous and distorted ways?
Mine would be far more likely to attack right back, she wouldn't so much send shivers down your spine as rip it out and feed it to you (and I mean hypothetocal GnR hater online, not you personally 
) anyway it's a much more honest and from-the-heart reaction, and blessedly free of spin and buttkissing to the fans.
I have little interest to be honest, but I;ve been reading this thread, so yeah... I personally presume that the guy (axl) who didn't cave to band member's pressures in the old GnR, to the pressures of addictions to hardcore stuff like heroin that caught up so many contemporaries in their heyday, to label pressures recently or to fan pressures EVER (not even to go onstage in a timely manner/at all lol!) isn't... exactly an easy person to get "under the thumb."
I'm smelling misogyny - not @ you, Coppereye, just the whole anti-Mrs L thing I've read elsewhere from time to time. Reeks a tiny bit of the notion that we want our rock stars to live tragic lives, and god forbid they might find contentment and some vestige of a family, and stability -_ rocker's wives are notoriously unpopular with the fans after all.
If she was an elder male manager figure, one with a track record as some kind of rock royalty maybe, I doubt she'd be anything like as demonised, I also suspect her ethnicity (with its implications for many in the US as second-class citizen etc) and her initial role in his life as a nanny is what's riling a lot of people up - the servants are getting uppity, etc etc nauseating BS.
just my rant - I realise I;ve now become part of the problem so to speak discussing the private lives of private individuals, but hey the internet'll do that to ya every time. 
At the end of the day, if she's making Axl's life better i bless her for it, the same as I would if he was my next-door neighbour or some random guy who collects my trash, we all have a right to find people we care about and on the slim off-chance he'd have been more unhappy day in and day out of his one and only life without her, but we'd have had - oooh, an album or two extra, meh - that's not a trade anyone should consider worthwhile.
This isn't like some defence, just my feelings, not knowing any of the people involved etc etc, I;m just wishing them all well. there's more important things in life than buying some new CD.
(annnndddd.... 'pologies for all the typos, finished working an all-nighter had a few beers! 
)
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
The problem lies in the fact that Mrs Lebeis has been very certain to point out that she represents Axl as a Personal Assistant, instead of a family member of any kind. This means, whatever public comments she chooses to make regarding Axl/GNR should be taken within that context.
Therefore, while supporting Axl, dispelling errors and explaining away certain decisions is all well and good, degradatory personal remarks aimed at fans at public forums are well beyond any hint of professionalism.
Furthermore, such statements may also be considered unethical in the sense Mrs Lebeis could be seen to abuse her position in such situations. If she cannot differentiate the stance acceptable for a Personal Assistant from that of a family member, she should study the posting policies underneath both monikers until she does.
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
copperye wrote:... Mrs Lebeis' personal conduct in online conversations with the fans - reacting only to negative comments - leaves a lot to be desired and sends shivers down my spine...
Well as I said this is all a bit tacky imo but, if that was your mom, which it seems like she's kind of become a surrogate mom/elder sister whatever, and nothing wrong with that, how would your mom react if she kept seeing you attacked in the most outrageous and distorted ways?
Mine would be far more likely to attack right back, she wouldn't so much send shivers down your spine as rip it out and feed it to you (and I mean hypothetocal GnR hater online, not you personally
I have little interest to be honest, but I;ve been reading this thread, so yeah... I personally presume that the guy (axl) who didn't cave to band member's pressures in the old GnR, to the pressures of addictions to hardcore stuff like heroin that caught up so many contemporaries in their heyday, to label pressures recently or to fan pressures EVER (not even to go onstage in a timely manner/at all lol!) isn't... exactly an easy person to get "under the thumb."
I'm smelling misogyny - not @ you, Coppereye, just the whole anti-Mrs L thing I've read elsewhere from time to time. Reeks a tiny bit of the notion that we want our rock stars to live tragic lives, and god forbid they might find contentment and some vestige of a family, and stability -_ rocker's wives are notoriously unpopular with the fans after all.
If she was an elder male manager figure, one with a track record as some kind of rock royalty maybe, I doubt she'd be anything like as demonised, I also suspect her ethnicity (with its implications for many in the US as second-class citizen etc) and her initial role in his life as a nanny is what's riling a lot of people up - the servants are getting uppity, etc etc nauseating BS.
just my rant - I realise I;ve now become part of the problem so to speak discussing the private lives of private individuals, but hey the internet'll do that to ya every time.
At the end of the day, if she's making Axl's life better i bless her for it, the same as I would if he was my next-door neighbour or some random guy who collects my trash, we all have a right to find people we care about and on the slim off-chance he'd have been more unhappy day in and day out of his one and only life without her, but we'd have had - oooh, an album or two extra, meh - that's not a trade anyone should consider worthwhile.
This isn't like some defence, just my feelings, not knowing any of the people involved etc etc, I;m just wishing them all well. there's more important things in life than buying some new CD.
(annnndddd.... 'pologies for all the typos, finished working an all-nighter had a few beers!
Bullseye! Great post man 
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
Thx Olorin! 
Being nooby round here, good to hear I;m not pissing everyone off...
Only one thing I gotta say before I hit the sack:
The problem lies in the fact that Mrs Lebeis has been very certain to point out that she represents Axl as a Personal Assistant, instead of a family member of any kind.
Yeah, but to be fair, if she started mentioning being like family people would rip her left right and centre for being deranged, all that very-ugly stuff about his ffs WILL, and all the trash I;ve read on Other Forums. 
I mean it;s one thing to be LIKE s ubstitute mom, another thing to call yourself that to the... unshaven internet hordes, many of whom have deep and personal attachments and stuff to axl & all concepts of GnR old & new.
I can't see any way she could say that kind of thing and not come off as an utter wackjob!
How we feel about people and what we can say to other people, esp a hostile press and often hostile "fans" are two completely different things.
She's good enough for Mr Rose, so she's good enough for me, your opinion may vary and wouldn't life be dull if we all thought alike? 
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
Family members of famous people tend to shy away from appearing openly as such in the Internet, because a lot of things said are obviously too close to comfort. This is connected to the banes of being famous, on which I won't go into detail at the moment.
The point is, I doubt anyone here has a problem with Axl having a close relationship to someone, who can offer him at least a fraction of the support, care and comfort he himself has occasionally admitted to have been lacking most of his life. I think we can drop that angle from the 'debatables'.
Unfortunatey, Mrs Lebeis doesn't restrict her role to singularly Axl's caretaker. She appears as his PA, and acts like his caretaker. That, right there, is a conflict of interests. One is an official representative of the man, the band and the business entity. The other is a private person, who has lived with Axl for nearly two decades. I'm sure you agree there's a bit of a difference.
When these two get mixed up, Mrs Lebeis' vitriolic comments as a private person towards those critical to Axl and the band are seen as GNR's OFFICIAL stance against their own fans, as Mrs Lebeis (again) represents GNR whenever posting on the subject under her own name. That's more than enough to get some feathers ruffled, and is an inexcusable way to handle public relations.
This is why a lot of people in the community have a problem with Mrs Lebeis.
However, in the name of equality, it must be said that the inner circle of Axl's camp and the online fanbase have been 'at war' with each other for years. It takes two to tango, but since GNR consists of the people that make most things happen (releasing albums, touring, giving updates), it's rather obvious they are expected to take the initiative, rise above those who amongst us who are simply negative for the sake of itself, and offer slight respect. And respect, as every mature person knows, is a two-way street.
Ron's recent Q&A is a good example on how little we ultimately get by. He answered his questions truthfully, acknowledging every question while admitting he's not always the right person to answer every aspect of the band. That's all well and good, and the majority of the fanbase has been positive and respectful towards Ron in return.
The other end of the spectrum is Del James' View from the Side of the Stage, written during the 2006 tour, which rather blatantly condemned those willing to criticize the way GNR does things. While Del's frustration may be understandable, his reaction was miles away from justified, let alone reasonable. In one of the more embarrassing moments of the saga, the article was removed from the GNR official site some time after publishing, after it had been noted and duly commented throughout the fanbase.
Axl's online chats were, again, a good way to handle things with the fans. His responses were broad, and many difficult subjects were addressed. However, subsequent events, as well as his more recent interviews with Billboard and Spinner have since left us unsure as to where the band currently lies, and the silent treatment is exactly what is needed to contain and diminish any goodwill Axl's appearances made.
And why do we talk about GNR? Because we care, and we'd like to be given an occasional update due to our liking of GNR; this very band and this very album. It'd be a whole lot easier for the lot of us to understand why things are happening at a certain rate (or not at all), if a bone is thrown every now and then to keep us sedated.
When we're given nothing in terms of information, and all the while expected to express support, most of us go, 'Gimme a reason or fuck off'. Ron did the good thing and gave a reason to justify supporting this band again, on which I applaud him.
It's not difficult. Just some basic interaction and respect.
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
That Del James article is pretty snide, it starts out really interesting though, but then he just goes off on a smug tangent about people questioning GNRs timekeeping etc. Some of his gripes are valid, complaining about setlists is silly, but his explanations about it all being rock n roll attitude and non conformist are cliched and sound contrived.
I wish everyone associated with GNR would stop concerning themselves so much with the people who dont like the band, the music, the shows etc and just focus on the people who do like them.
Be Like Bumble
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
Beta surrendered her 'private citizen' status years ago, when she interjected herself to become an assistant to a public figure... a very well known musician/singer.
She's open to any speculative, informative, defaming, or insulting commentary you want to throw at her. She's not off limits and never has been, and even dragged her own kids into the pool with her.
Only time she still had a private role, is when she was privately employed by Miss Seymour.
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
Final analysis, we have no RIGHT to expect anything from GNR, any member current or ex, least of all Axl.
Answer me this - who likes Axl Rose because he gives a fuck, cares what people say about him, plays it safe, and commission sfocus groups on who can represent him?
No?
Thought not!
So what if Beta's not always done things the PR approved sanitised safe way - now, I KNOW I am in danger of defending this lady JUST because she's being criticised, that's life, that's me and probably a lot of us Gnr fans (ie contrary BASTARDS! ) but hey, she stuck her neck out, she didn't shy away and play the easy populist card, one thing's for sure she's probably got temperamental similarities to the man himself Mr rose.
like I said - easy now to go all pro-Mrs L vs. in the blue corner anti etc etc , it;s not that clear, unless you know stuff, cuz I know hands up I don't know jack about what Axl's life possibly can be like, any more tha he could about you and me, don't know what Mrs L means to him, what she is and isn't really doing?
I let myself get drawn into this against MY better judgement - maybe that's something to consider too. Peace out dudes, won't check this thread again, right and wrong aside it;s making me feel wrong. Thanks for the lesson to all!
Re: Fernando's link to leaks? And the craziness that is gnr
Answer me this - who likes Axl Rose because he gives a fuck, cares what people say about him, plays it safe, and commission sfocus groups on who can represent him?
No?
Thought not!
You're too right.
I hate the fact that Axl gives a fuck and cares what's being said about him in HTGTH, MyGNR and CD.com, which is why he plays it safe and commissions focus groups on who can represent him.
Mods get treated with inside status, backstage accesses, etc, and in return, they relinquish autonomy over to the Axl camp. Several news articles slide over to the unwanted category. Too critical people are banned.
Mrs Lebeis rides the gravy train and single-handedly calls many people 'undesirable' from GNR's perspective, just because they offer their $0.02 on a situation. Axl claims no responsibility over these methods, but his people are quick to throw their weight around.
It's not a healthy relationship between a band and a fanbase. Adding fuel to the fire by such draconian means only worsens the overall situation.
I wouldn't expect anything from Axl, if Axl wouldn't expect me to play nice.
Again.
Respect.
It's a two-way street.
