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Re: Twitter updates
Just to clarify, I'm not saying people weren't aware of Chinese Democracy. Obviously they were, it was pretty well publicized. My point is a LITTLE promotion would've helped somewhat. And people were far more likely to hear witty DJ's from their hometown radio station knock CD and Axl then to read a positive review from a internet music site, magazines, etc. wherever reviews may be found. Again, I NEVER check CD reviews unless I'm trying to kill time in a waiting room. Maybe tons of people do and there's an unknown underground movement of people scouring the internet for CD reviews. If there is, I'm not in on it.
Re: Twitter updates
DJ's don't count as critics.
Most DJ's were complete assholes about the album, and loved every minute intentionally not playing the single, even when requested.
That's what happens in that business, when you refuse interviews, and refuse to promote your own music.
Re: Twitter updates
buzzsaw wrote:buzzsaw wrote:Do you really think that the general public didn't know CD was released? Really? For your sake, I hope not. It made the news even if it was as the butt of a joke, so people knew it was out there. If you don't think that people sought out reviews to see if it was any good, you're also kidding yourself. I would suspect the RS review was likely the most popular one and one of the most positive ones.
You can keep going on this if you want, but it's not going to work in your favor.
Quoting yourself I see. That's appropriate since you say the same things over and over anyways.
I'm still waiting for you to address the actual post rather than attacking me for being right.
Re: Twitter updates
Just to clarify, I'm not saying people weren't aware of Chinese Democracy. Obviously they were, it was pretty well publicized. My point is a LITTLE promotion would've helped somewhat. And people were far more likely to hear witty DJ's from their hometown radio station knock CD and Axl then to read a positive review from a internet music site, magazines, etc. wherever reviews may be found. Again, I NEVER check CD reviews unless I'm trying to kill time in a waiting room. Maybe tons of people do and there's an unknown underground movement of people scouring the internet for CD reviews. If there is, I'm not in on it.
No shit a little promotion would have helped, but it's not why the album failed. People knew the album was out there. People were told to like it - believe it or not, people still read RS and other music magazines both online and the magazine itself. The singles were given an opportunity and charted for a short period of time, so again, people got to hear the material, they just didn't like it. Whether they didn't like it because of the singles or because a friend bought the album and played it for them or they downloaded it themselves, the end result was still that they didn't like it. People had access to the music and chose not to listen. That wasn't because of the lack of promotion.
Re: Twitter updates
DJ's don't count as critics.
Most DJ's were complete assholes about the album, and loved every minute intentionally not playing the single, even when requested.
That's what happens in that business, when you refuse interviews, and refuse to promote your own music.
Even with that happening, the songs charted. People did hear the singles, there just wasn't a lot of interest in them.
Re: Twitter updates
faldor wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not saying people weren't aware of Chinese Democracy. Obviously they were, it was pretty well publicized. My point is a LITTLE promotion would've helped somewhat. And people were far more likely to hear witty DJ's from their hometown radio station knock CD and Axl then to read a positive review from a internet music site, magazines, etc. wherever reviews may be found. Again, I NEVER check CD reviews unless I'm trying to kill time in a waiting room. Maybe tons of people do and there's an unknown underground movement of people scouring the internet for CD reviews. If there is, I'm not in on it.
No shit a little promotion would have helped, but it's not why the album failed. People knew the album was out there. People were told to like it - believe it or not, people still read RS and other music magazines both online and the magazine itself. The singles were given an opportunity and charted for a short period of time, so again, people got to hear the material, they just didn't like it. Whether they didn't like it because of the singles or because a friend bought the album and played it for them or they downloaded it themselves, the end result was still that they didn't like it. People had access to the music and chose not to listen. That wasn't because of the lack of promotion.
Sorry, I thought you said NO amount of promotion could've helped the album before. The good reviews the album got were one step, that's for sure. But I personally have never bought an album because of a positive review I read. I'd need a little more than that. Okay, so they DID release 2 singles. It takes more than that for me too. If I hear 2 good songs from an artist that doesn't push me out the door to buy the album. Granted if I was interested enough I'd check the rest of it online and then make up my mind. But 1) I've heard LOTS of people say how poor the airplay was for both the singles in their area so the off chance people would've heard both isn't all that great. 2) It's no secret DJ's, media, the "average Joe" has been slamming Axl and new GNR for years. They were against an uphill battle from the beginning. The chance to win people over didn't involve releasing an album, singles, and walking away saying nothing about them aside from a few online chats and a Billboard interview. You act as if any band can just drop an album, drop a few singles and sell more than 550K copies in the US and 3 million worldwide. I'd love to see that happen, show me some other examples.
The argument, which you claim to be correct on (big surprise) is pointless and impossible to quantify. The promotion never happened. You claim everyone knew about the album, heard the singles, read the reviews, listened to the rest of the album, made up their own minds and weren't swayed by any negative talk about Axl and the band over the years, and at that point and that point only decided the music was awful and not worth purchasing. I think you're giving people WAY too much credit. People had their minds made up going into this over the last 15 years that they could care less about a new GNR or Axl Rose himself and the band has done little to change that. THAT is the main reason the album hasn't sold as well as some (me included) expected. Not because the music isn't good enough. Of course that's just my opinion, but I think it's every bit as viable as yours.
Re: Twitter updates
Lets not act like there was zero promotion. Myspace shoved it down peoples throats, every media outlet reviewed it, and Scraped was even played on NFL broadcasts. A few commercials and even WWE gave it a push. The only thing lacking in the promotion was band participation.
Obviously it should have got a bigger push by the band, but it definitely got a push. Pop culture didn't embrace it and that's why it dropped like ten tons of bricks off the charts. The ONLY reason this album can be deemed a moderate success is the Best Buy deal and first week sales.
Like others have said, its interesting how the media was willing to embrace it but the public didn't. While the album was never gonna set the world on fire(its only chance for that was in 2000-02), it would have been interesting to see the results had GNR pushed it like U2 did with Atomic Bomb and No Line.
Faldor, I don't think Buzz is saying your opinion doesn't matter. You've been here long enough to know thats his posting style. A tad abrasive with a dose of arrogance. Agree or disagree with him, at least he doesn't troll and actually puts thought into his posts. He actually reminds me of a non nutswinging version of davegnr2k from yesteryear.
Re: Twitter updates
Just reading through here I saw my thoughts summed up on the whole mess in two thoughts that weren't my own. It all boils down to.
This
Pop culture didn't embrace it and that's why it dropped like ten tons of bricks off the charts. The ONLY reason this album can be deemed a moderate success is the Best Buy deal and first week sales.
Because of This
I just don't find anything that would attract younger music listeners, those who aren't fans of th old material. On the other hand I absolutely understand why a lot of old fans don't like it.
Re: Twitter updates
Lets not act like there was zero promotion. Myspace shoved it down peoples throats, every media outlet reviewed it, and Scraped was even played on NFL broadcasts. A few commercials and even WWE gave it a push. The only thing lacking in the promotion was band participation.
Obviously it should have got a bigger push by the band, but it definitely got a push. Pop culture didn't embrace it and that's why it dropped like ten tons of bricks off the charts. The ONLY reason this album can be deemed a moderate success is the Best Buy deal and first week sales.
Like others have said, its interesting how the media was willing to embrace it but the public didn't. While the album was never gonna set the world on fire(its only chance for that was in 2000-02), it would have been interesting to see the results had GNR pushed it like U2 did with Atomic Bomb and No Line.
Faldor, I don't think Buzz is saying your opinion doesn't matter. You've been here long enough to know thats his posting style. A tad abrasive with a dose of arrogance. Agree or disagree with him, at least he doesn't troll and actually puts thought into his posts. He actually reminds me of a non nutswinging version of davegnr2k from yesteryear.
Yeah I didn't mean to say Buzz doesn't respect my opinion, he just always thinks he's right and dismisses anyone that disagrees with him. I guess you could say he respectfully disagrees with me in an arrogant manner. But whatever, that's fine. Buzz and I will never see eye to eye, that's quite clear so why even bother?
I agree the album did get various promotion across many different media fronts, but as everyone knows, there was nothing from the band. The media was ready to embrace GNR and was doing so, but as time passed they weren't willing to wait for Axl to appear and that was that. They gave him every chance, it was all there for him. That I can't deny.
And I forget the exact timeframe but the album hung around the top 50 or so for about a month or so at least didn't it? Obviously that's not fantastic and I'm not trying to brag about that. But it was selling a month plus after it was released, NOW it's barely selling at all. And again I think that may tie in to when all the promotion from the outside stopped. We did get the Rock Band release in April, but by that point I think it was too late. That obviously didn't result in any sort of spike in sales, and of course there was no visible band involvement in that.
That's my main argument in this whole thing. There's no telling how much more successful this all could've been if there was even the normal to a little below normal band promotional involvement from the start. I personally think it would've made a pretty large difference. Not set the world on fire, revolutionize rock, AC/DC, Metallica good. But MUCH better than it's done.
