Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

Smoking Guns

Good post Faldor. I would think that both you and bono agree more about GNR than disagree. You guys both agree that its not really accepted by the diehards.

Bono

Saying I take pleasure and get joy out of this Faldor is a joke. Why would I enjoy rolling my eyes everytime I login and read some desperate attempt to deflect all attention away from the music in regards to the sales statistics. The difference between me and some others is I have in fact aknowledged that some aditional promo would've helped. How could it not? But unlike the others I also have the common sense to point at least one finger at the music. Like I said this "wait and see" attitude will live forever with those who for whatever reason don't want to admit or accept that maybe just maybe the public won't buy into this album based on many factors the MUSIC being one of them. If the music is going to speak for itself then one day we'll see album sales increase and word of mouth will lead to more and more peolpe buying the album. I don't see it happening. I knew long ago from listening to the leaks that the album would never sell or be a huge success. Other than the initial first week sales I figured it'd drop off the charts. It had nothing to do with me not likeing the music personally it had everything to do with me having an ear for what could actually be commercially successful. I could believe it or not hear what the average Joe was going to hear. Why people don't want to admit this is beyond me. Sales don't matter or so people say but deep down they matter alot because SO MANY people on this and other Gn'R boards were geeked on Axl taking over the music world again and ow that it's not going to happen it's all about the marketing and how fucking dumb the public is and blah blah blah. I just want people to take the blinders off and accpet the music as one of the reasons. I've said it a million times, we all like bands and albums that we think are amazing yet we're smart enough to know that it would not be a appealing sound to the masses. But for some this is Guns N' Fucking Roses and if people would just give it a fair chance they'd love it. Basically people are saying those who don't like it are mindless sheep, fucking retarded or just haven't given it a fair chance. NEVER do they consider the fact that people may actually dislike what they hear. It's always a matter of them having a major bias going in. Well tell me where my bias was? I guess I'm a fucking retarded mindless sheep. I almost hope in a weird way U2's album fails from a sales stand point. Then I can say it was a lack of promo and a lack of people giving it a fair chance and then some of you can see how damn ridiculous it sounds.

But whatever. I'm done fighting.

Bright Eyes 2005

Bono wrote:

NY Giants82 wrote:
Bono wrote:
What a fucking joke! People feeling compelled to buy an AC/DC album becasue of Wal-Mart. This discusion is ridiculous. An AC/DC greatest hits would kill in sales with or without promo. I know alot of people who bought Black Ice and do in fact really like that glorified piece of plastic with some prints on it. I know of only one fucking person who bought Chinese Democracy and he had very little to say about it when I asked him what he thought. "Meh it's o.k. but not as good as the old stuff" is the standard response. Oh and in Canada you can buy these albums anywhere you damn well feel like. No exclusive Best Buy or Wal-Mart stuff going on here so explain to me why AC/DC sells better in Canada? Cause of a Wal-Mart promotional campaigne? Gimme a fucking break.
What I cant understand is how people, like you, cant see what a difference it would have made had GNR went with Wal Mart than Best Buy. Wal Mart has pushed the living shit out of not just Black Ice, but AC/DC in general. Compare a store like Wal Mart, who has stores EVERYWHERE, to a store like Best Buy, who is in a lot of economic trouble and has stores few and far in between.
Its like talking to a fucking brick wall.
I never said it woudln't have made a difference. I am saying that suggesting AC/DC's album is seeling only on a Wal-Mart campaigne is fucking moronic. Trying to downplay the quality of AC/DC's album when it's a very AC/DC sounding album is moronic. It's exactly the type of album AC/DC fans like. News Flash people. AC/DC has been popular at every point in their career. They don't fucking need Wal-Mart to push units. I'll say it again CD and Black Ice are available everywhere in Canada. Black Ice has been out longer than CD and is still a top five selling album in Canada. CD is a total after thought. It's like talking to a brick wall with those who can't fucking understand that. Marketing this and marketing that. Blah, blah fucking blah. EXCUSES non stop! And now where entering a period where fans are starting to say we gotta wait a year to see how it plays out. Gimme a fucking break. After a year it'll be "well the album will speak for itself over time. ten years from now we might be talkin about how successful CD is/was" It's a dellusional thought process being expressed by so many and it's ridiculous. Why the fuck do so many of you share this fantasy that if the rest of the world would just listen to CD they'd love it? Why do you NEED this to be the case? I'm sure we all listen to alot of bands and albums that we personally think are great but we don't sit there tihnking "gee if only the world wodl give it a try they'd go ga ga over it". If you can't see that CD isn't a mass appealing album than I dont' know what to say. You all say sales dont' matter yet you cling to this desire for the world to love it and buy it. One or the other folks.

Four quick points

--Faldor, great post

--No one is suggesting that ACDC fans didn't buy this album--they did. The last ACDC album was as good as Black Ice, it had a very regular push from the label, without a monumental Wally-World campaign, and sold what 250K in a few months? Why is this album, which is possibly inferior, selling eight times more in the same period? Wal Mart. It's a fact jack, sorry.

--Who and where are these "excuses"? The only one bringing these up is you? It's like you are now making up imaginary people to throw darts at, for imaginary reasons.

--FYI, 1.5 million people is nothing to sneeze at. On the other hand, who gives a fuck if it's mass appealing or not? Does it matter, or not matter, in the big picture if we agree or disagree on that point? What is your point? Oh yeah, we're all douchenozzles, and are supposed to acknowledge, that this is not mass appealing enough for Bono, so it sucks.

Bono

Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:

Four quick points
--Faldor, great post
--No one is suggesting that ACDC fans didn't buy this album--they did. The last ACDC album was as good as Black Ice, it had a very regular push from the label, without a monumental Wally-World campaign, and sold what 250K in a few months? Why is this album, which is possibly inferior, selling eight times more in the same period? Wal Mart. It's a fact jack, sorry.
--Who and where are these "excuses"? The only one bringing these up is you? It's like you are now making up imaginary people to throw darts at, for imaginary reasons.
--FYI, 1.5 million people is nothing to sneeze at. On the other hand, who gives a fuck if it's mass appealing or not? Does it matter, or not matter, in the big picture if we agree or disagree on that point? What is your point? Oh yeah, we're all douchenozzles, and are supposed to acknowledge, that this is not mass appealing enough for Bono, so it sucks.

Obvioulsy you can't for the life of yourself comprehend anything I'm saying. Wal-Mart baby Wal-Mart!!!! People just need to give it a chance. BOO FUCKING HOO! I have not said the album sucks based on sales figures. Even a monkey knows I haven't said that. It's your lack of ability to comprehend what I'm saying.

1.5 million may not be anything to sneeze at but having an album with this much anticipation and hype free fall off the charts in less than a month is. Figure it out. the album had more hype than any album in history. Ten years worth and two(three depending on what you consider a tour) tours to promote it before it's release. Yeah people just haven't given it a fair chance and Wal -Mart stole their thunder and gave it to AC/DC

but again I'm done fighting. So carry on with your Wal-Mart bitch fest Brighteyes. This is my LAST post on the subject.

Smoking Guns

Bright Eyes, Black Eyes is the best AC/DC album since The Razors Edge, that is why people love it. It blows Stiff Upper Lip out of the water. Rock N Roll Train was a good single.

Bono, I am with you, there is no point in talking about it anymore.

faldor

Alright bono, I'll try one more time. You say it's time to face the facts and admit that the music isn't appealing to the masses. How are we supposed to do that if we love the album? It's hard to take the blinders off and say, yeah it's really not that good, Britney Spears is much better. My (our) only reasoning is the people that don't get it are just mindless sheep. I'm not so sure why that's so hard for you to understand. I love the album, I think it's fantastic. I think it's the best album to be released in 15 years. I know you think I'm brain-washed, an Axl nut-swinger, I'm just saying that and don't actually believe it. But it's true, that's how I feel. I'm sorry if the rest of the world doesn't agree with me, but I'm not ready to admit that Nickelback makes superior music because they sell more units. Whether it's marketing, promotion, Best Buy vs. Wal-Mart, people hating Axl, people missing Slash and unwilling to see this as GNR, etc. Obviously there are a lot of factors. GNR and Axl get a lot of negative press though, so you can't possibly say that that doesn't have the slightest negative impact on sales. Like it or not, some people are mindless sheep, and they'll be mislead into thinking certain music is worthy of buying and some is not. They hear Hinder, Nickelback, Theory of a Deadman, and Shinedown over and over on the radio and they begin to think that must be good music.

All in all bono, you're barking up the wrong tree if you want us to admit that the music just isn't that good. It's just not gonna happen. I've already said I accepted the fact that the masses aren't buying into it, for a multitude of reasons, however the lack of quality would be very low on that list.

faldor

Alright bono, I just read your last comment on the subject, so you don't have to respond anymore. Like I said before, we could debate this till the end of time. We just have to agree to disagree. I will say however, I just saw a report on the news, they were going over retail stores/companies and how badly they struggled this year. The 2 companies they mentioned who have done better than previous years were Apple and Wal-Mart. I'm just saying. Not sure if AC/DC hurdled Wal-Mart into such success or if it were the other way around. I think you could guess what my thought would be though.

James

Both sides make valid points. Obviously the album would have sold a bit more had it been everywhere. The main thing going against the record is a total lack of a catchy single. The AC/DC album had one. It contributed to its high sales figures. CD doesn't have that, and the sales reflect that. This album could be sold outside everyones front door and the sales will not increase without a single the public can latch on to.

Also, AC/DC and Metallica killed GNR sales wise in all countries. Not just the US with the Best Buy exclusive. This boils down to the lack of singles also.

James

Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:

--Who and where are these "excuses"? The only one bringing these up is you? It's like you are now making up imaginary people to throw darts at, for imaginary reasons.

The excuses were everywhere when the first week sales figures were released. Its reached the point where most don't even bother with the excuses anymore. I've noticed that the appearance of "Dexter" helped bury the discussion regarding the album's nosedive.

faldor

James Lofton wrote:

Both sides make valid points. Obviously the album would have sold a bit more had it been everywhere. The main thing going against the record is a total lack of a catchy single. The AC/DC album had one. It contributed to its high sales figures. CD doesn't have that, and the sales reflect that. This album could be sold outside everyones front door and the sales will not increase without a single the public can latch on to.
Also, AC/DC and Metallica killed GNR sales wise in all countries. Not just the US with the Best Buy exclusive. This boils down to the lack of singles also.

That I will agree with. People always ask me what the best song on the album is and I struggle to come up with a definitive answer. I personally think "TWAT" but then I remember it took me at least a couple listens to really appreciate that song. Most people would say "Better" but I don't really agree with that. Most other albums have that one surefire single, this album seems to lack. Don't get me wrong, I think all the songs are great and I think to truly appreciate the greatness of the album you have to listen to it in full. But it's a lot to ask of some to set aside 72 minutes of their day for something that probably isn't gonna hit them initially anyway.

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