You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: The BATMAN Thread
The Batman never triumphs, that's the point. He's a tortured soul fighting an endless, ultimately losing battle. Along the way he'll touch many peoples lives, many for better, some for worse. But he'll never triumph. He'll never conquer the obstacles he's imposed on himself. He's a heroic persona wrapped in a nightmare visage and trapped in a living hell of his own creation. The better comic writers (Frank Miller) have understood that. I'm glad Nolan gets it, too.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
The Batman never triumphs, that's the point. He's a tortured soul fighting an endless, ultimately losing battle. Along the way he'll touch many peoples lives, many for better, some for worse. But he'll never triumph. He'll never conquer the obstacles he's imposed on himself. He's a heroic persona wrapped in a nightmare visage and trapped in a living hell of his own creation. The better comic writers (Frank Miller) have understood that. I'm glad Nolan gets it, too.
Good explanation. By triumphant hero, I meant relatively speaking. He will never win the battle, but Nolan will go out with a bang portraying Batman's situation as perpetual but improved from the events of TDK. No way in hell he makes things even worse for Batman by the end of Batman 3.
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Just wanna say, that I'm not a big Batman fan or anything, but I rented this movie today and watched it. It is a damn good movie. One of the best I've seen this year.
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Saw it tonight for the first time. First off is that it is no where near the masterpiece it is hailed to be. Ledgers death have definitely created an over hype for the movie as a whole.
The bat copycat concept was interesting, but the execution was poor and the humor felt forced. Batman is not made for that type of humor. I gotta say, at one point it reminded me of "Cops". There are way too many nonsense action scenes. Batman in hand to hand combat feels rehashed, and becomes repetitive already in the second reel. Sorry to say, but if you can't top The Matrix you shouldn't do it at all. It's like they're trying to make a point of something we've seen a thousand times in a thousand different versions.
Other than that I think they tried to cover way too much ground. The film jumps around a lot and the Dent storyline became over-climatic in an already packed movie. The ending in itself, as in the monologue, simply felt forced and cheezy. I already felt that message had been hammered enough at that point, and you do kinda feel treated like a kid. Also I wanted the middle class guy to blow up the other ship, but I don't think I'll hold that against them.:haha:
It's not all doom and gloom though. The cinematography is excellent, good score, especially at the opening heist. In general a flawless technical film. The premise of the storyline is captivating to say the least and they explore a lot of new ground. Not only in the superhero genre, but action movies as a whole. Events are linked logically to the first movie and the backlash against Batman and the rise of crime as a result of his actions feels real in a way action movies almost never do.
Which ultimately brings us to the real star of the movie. The Joker is one of the best, most complex, interesting and well acted character ever put on screen. I was shocked, totally stunned by that performance. With the amount of hype the role has gotten it could not possibly live up it. Wrong. It actually surpasses the hype. I'm literally in tears now just thinking about the things he did and said, and most importantly how he said it. Acting legends like Freeman, Caine, Oldman and superstar Christian Bale are little but cardboard characters in the face of a guy that gained prominence portraying a gay cowboy. Definitely Oscar material.
You're crazy.
No, I'm not. I'm not.
Do you think you can just steal our money and walk away?
Yes
Priceless, just priceless. Waiting for the joker to open his mouth was like being a kid at christmas eve again.
It is a very flawed film, more so than Begins, but this one performance somehow manages to make it an incredible experience. I've never seen anything quite like it, this total ownage. I immediately wanted to see the movie again. 4/5 with two of the stars solely belonging to Ledger and the writer.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Pollux, I think the more you watch it the more you will realize Begins is actually the more flawed film. TDK's script is far stronger. The rehashed dialogue throughout Begins is really lazy writing from David Goyer. The word "fear" is used enough in that movie to kill someone who plays a drinking game. LOL. Jonah Nolan, director Chris Nolan's brother, was brought in to write TDK instead of Goyer. Goyer helped with the story but not the dialogue. I love both movies equally but TDK is a technically superior film. The only thing stronger in Begins is the fact that it focuses so heavily on Bruce/Batman, which is something Batman fans had been craving for Hollywood to finally do since Burton and Schumacher pretty much turned the character into a supporting role. After years of waiting for a movie like that and after the disaster that was Batman & Robin, Batman Begins was a huge breath of fresh air. Everyone expected TDK to be great and it is. It lived up to its hype whereas BB is the reason for that hype in the first place because it was a great film that restored the character's reputation with a lot of people. The character's reputation was in the gutter thanks to Schumacher's movies so Begins creating the kind of hype that it did for TDK was an impressive feat. From no hype to hype that was off the charts.
The monologue at the end of TDK is one of the best parts of the film. You may think it's cheesy but I love it. I loved BB's ending and I love TDK's even more.
Re: The BATMAN Thread
I expect many issues to soften as I get time to watch it again and process it more completely. There's a lot of things going on, and by experience I know that means some parts are simply missed on the first viewing. However there are plenty of times where scenes just feels way off. It ruins the flow, and I'm surprised to see that it's such a drastically different movie than BB structure wise. They got a little wild a little too often.
The Joker though is simply too powerful, and a lot of it is forgiven. It's telling that a lot of people after the premiere thought it was one of the best films ever, yet they had several problems with parts of the it. Ledgers performance seem to have overshadowed what would normally drop 2 stars off the rating. And that is a feat in itself for both him and the movie. It may be a funny way to say it, but the movie critic in me says BB is the better film, but yet I think TDK will get more spins.
This may be the best villain ever portrayed outside of the Star Wars universe. He catches so many iconic traits and in my eyes is the most mature character in the whole movie. His philosophy is inspiring in a way, whereas the rest all still drag around the old black and white paradigm.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: The BATMAN Thread
I just finished watching the movie, all I can say is...wow it really puts Batman Forever and Batman and Robin in perspective.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: The BATMAN Thread
Also I wanted the middle class guy to blow up the other ship, but I don't think I'll hold that against them.:haha:
I won't say I wanted the guy to blow up the ship, but I think in reality he would have. It was a nice way to trump the joker in that good triumphed over his madness but if that situation was to really occur one of those boats would be blown up I feel sure of it.
I agree on your assessment of the joker, any flaws the film has and it does have some are just melted away by Ledger. He is simply sensational. That scene you quoted I could watch a million times, his mannerisms are excellent. I love the emphasis he puts on the T at the end of 'No...I'm...not' it's so cold and menacing it gave me chills.
