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Re: Wiki Leaks
Wouldn't somone from Ireland, who really believed in self determination and avoiding corrupt governments, support the real IRA. I mean, if someone was really dedicated to change and was from Ireland, I can't see how they wouldn't . Otherwise, they're just leaching off the safety net provided by England. I won't honor this moron or his alter ego with a direct response, but just a little food for thought for the other members of the forum.
I couldn't care less about all the nonsense in this thread and arguments.
...But this is bullshit, the IRA went around fucking bombing and killing people in this little country called Northren Ireland.
How the fuck is blowing up pubs, buses, killing policemen, knee caping neigbours with hammers who are different religion than you, a cause to support?
You know fucking what, they Sinn Fein and IRA got funding from Amercian polictians on fundraising trips. Because people like you felt because their ancestors were Irish a few hundred years ago, you need to give money to Irish terriosts.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Wiki Leaks
Randall Flagg wrote:Wouldn't somone from Ireland, who really believed in self determination and avoiding corrupt governments, support the real IRA. I mean, if someone was really dedicated to change and was from Ireland, I can't see how they wouldn't . Otherwise, they're just leaching off the safety net provided by England. I won't honor this moron or his alter ego with a direct response, but just a little food for thought for the other members of the forum.
I couldn't care less about all the nonsense in this thread and arguments.
...But this is bullshit, the IRA went around fucking bombing and killing people in this little country called Northren Ireland.
How the fuck is blowing up pubs, buses, killing policemen, knee caping neigbours with hammers who are different religion than you, a cause to support?
You know fucking what, they Sinn Fein and IRA got funding from Amercian polictians on fundraising trips. Because people like you felt because their ancestors were Irish a few hundred years ago, you need to give money to Irish terriosts.
I'm well aware of what the IRA does and has done. My point was, that for all the rhetoric he was putting out there about reform and change, and his statement that violence isn't off the table, the IRA seems right up HIS alley. Since England and the US are best buddies, and as he opposes the efforts of both nations, it just seemed like a logical choice him being from Ireland and all.
And although I certainly don't support the IRA (I happen to come from German ancestry) I will notate that the concept of terroism, specificall in the case of Northern Ireland, is a relative concept. Compare the actions of the "Patriots" against the torries in the American Revolution or the Confederacy and Union during the American Civil War. As other members in this thread have shown support for the confederacy, I fail to see how my analogy is out of line.
Re: Wiki Leaks
How the fuck is blowing up pubs, buses, killing policemen, knee caping neigbours with hammers who are different religion than you, a cause to support?
Not sure, maybe we should ask some people who have voted for an american President once, or a british PM for that matter (just so we cover the usual suspects).
Perhaps as much as a million children died in Iraq under Clintons watch (so he could make a point), but the major gripe people have with him was that little business with the secretary. The IRA have at least some justification for their actions (well I guess the USG do to, but fighting for freedom still strikes me as a bit more honorable than fighting for oil).
Re: Wiki Leaks
I'm confused in all of this. And have been meaning to reply to your posts. Leave me out of it and let's talk about the military in general. Are you saying that military service itself is not honorable or just not blanketly so? If the latter, I wholely agree. By mearly volunteering to wear the uniform, does not make one honorable. I know plenty of people in the military I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. Just as in the general population.
Originally I was not completely sure, and frankly inclined to both. But after giving it some thought my answer has to be that there are no honorable institutions, only honorable men.
Your earlier comment about your own experience in the military and Rambo types isn't a fair comparison. First, I know very few Rambo types in the military. Those I do know who thought themselves such quickly changed their tune when the bullets started flying. Most people I know join the military because it gives them a purpose. Sure, some do it solely for the educational benefits, but by and large most fall under the category of "lost souls" who find meaning and direction. I fall into the 2nd category, though I also have a strong desire to defend the US Constitution as well as a family line of military service.
I should probably have mentioned that I live in a totalitarian country, so there's a draft. But I did end up in one of the most gung ho, ranger type installations. It's the kind of place where people who don't want a career, but still a juicy experience, applies for service (I ended up there on accident, long story). So I thought it at least somewhat appropriate to compare it to what I assume a professional military is like. I do agree with what you say though, so perhaps "Rambo" is not the proper classification, but the reason I used was to point out that flag and country usually plays a distant role in ones choice to become a soldier. It's more like you say, purpose, being a man, comraderie and all that.
I guess you can call me a hired gun, though I dislike the mercenary conotation in that regard. I make about 85k a year currently. Good money for sure, but I could be making well over 100k if I took my skill set outside of the public sector. I choose not to do so at this time because I believe in what I'm doing.
But back to the original point of discussion. I don't know if what I do is honorable or not. I guess I would say so, but I kind of lack objectivity in this regard. And since no one here knows exactly what I do and I have no intention of elaborating, they too can only speculate. I'm a Captain in the US Army. I've been to Iraq and am trying to get to Afghanistan. If that's honorable, so be it. If not, life will go on. Either way, I'll be happy.
When you say "if not", don't you imply that you are ready to do something dishonorable and still be happy? Or are you referring to general perceptions of what you're doing? Because in the end only you can answer that question. If killing civilians is deemed honorable by you there's really no one to tell you different (personally I don't think it necessarily has to be dishonorable to do something like that)
Not that it should matter, but my opinion is that your intentions are good. However I sense there might be some things you haven't thought through as well as you're conscience would have liked.
You probably noticed that I conveniently didn't answer the parts about Assange. The simple answer is I no longer care to. He might very well be a douchebag (although almost definately not a rapist), and I'm not interested in attaching anything to that kind of star. But concering wikileaks I don't see anything illegal in what they're doing. It's the USGs responsibility to protect their intellectual property, like everybody else. And that's that really. To suggest anything else would in my opinion be extremely "social" (for you fellow Europeans, that actually is a bad word. very very bad)
Re: Wiki Leaks
AtariLegend wrote:How the fuck is blowing up pubs, buses, killing policemen, knee caping neigbours with hammers who are different religion than you, a cause to support?
Not sure, maybe we should ask some people who have voted for an american President once, or a british PM for that matter (just so we cover the usual suspects).
Perhaps as much as a million children died in Iraq under Clintons watch (so he could make a point), but the major gripe people have with him was that little business with the secretary. The IRA have at least some justification for their actions (well I guess the USG do to, but fighting for freedom still strikes me as a bit more honorable than fighting for oil).
Justification, let's get this straight Easter Rising yada whatever you want to talk about happened almost 100 years ago or previously.
You do not need a passport to get back and forth between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. You are/were allowed to pick an Irish passport instead of a UK passport if you wanted to. Catholics were not thrown into jail, because of their religion during the troubles. NI is not Palestine nor a Yugoslavia scenario.
Plenty of social divides Catholics and Protestants, both sides treated each other poorly, but the freedom card, is a romantic notion sold to sold to teenagers who never went to school and Amercians.
Explain what freedom you're referring too? More of this population want NI to remain in the UK, than not to. If the reverse where true, main land Britian would have no problem giving what is a probably a money drain, this country back to the Republic today.
Re: Wiki Leaks
Yeah, because of protestant colonists. Sure, they love England.
You must be english when you try to diminish the suffering of the Irish people. The irish don't want to live under a military dictatorship like they do under the Queen. That's basically what the freedom part is about.
It should also be mentioned a lot of those bombs were the responsibility of your own government. They had infiltrated these groups for years. All the terror played right into the hand of the government. Like arme fraktion in germany. Search "operation Gladio" and "operation stay behind".
Re: Wiki Leaks
I've lived in Northern Ireland most of my life, I study Irish and European history in Belfast Metropolitan college. Most of the people on my course are Catholics. I didn't live through the 70s, but I can tell you in my life time, over the past 23 years milltary dictatorship my ass.
