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Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
monkeychow wrote:I'll say that for my money I prefer Axl because he's never put out a song I didn't find something I liked in, but then the price of that is that he puts out hardly anything compared to Chris, so it's statististicly more likely for cornell to disapoint me when he comes up with an album every few years or whatever.
I think you hit the nail on the head of this discussion. Axl has a very small body of work, specifically for someone so high profile. In fact, I cant think of someone of his caliber with a smaller discog that didn't die young, and that says a lot about him as an artist(good and bad).
Cornell has so many releases(solo and with two bands) that it's easy for anyone to say certain songs(or albums) suck. Hell, I don't even like some of his material. When he's "on", he is fucking on and there's no one better. I could say the same for Axl, but he's very rarely "on". While they are both my favorite singers(let's place M.I.A. in the middle of those two), Cornell's body of work is more impressive. This may be due to the sheer quantity of it and how much gold is dispersed throughout. Axl went from 93-08 with NOTHING. That is the equivalent of Cornell killing Soundgarden in 1994 and not returning until his solo album Scream. Please. He deserves brownie points just for being able to move on from Soundgarden and still kicking major amounts of ass.
You're right though....that first Audioslave record is just a MONSTER album.
This is quite a silly conversation is some ways though. Like how can there be any doubt that either of them is amazing
Obviously they are both amazing. I cant even imagine these guys collaborating. I wish Axl had asked Cornell to get involved with Chinese in some aspect during his period of downtime from his first solo record until he hooked up with Audioslave(99-01).
I just think it's funny that someone has the nerve to say he's a shitty writer and vocalist when he's pretty much regarded as one of the best in both departments not just by fans, but his peers as well(including Axl and Slash).
If we're talking about lyrics, in my opinion there are few artists that can be considered higher than Cornell. That said they are still quite a long ways better than him
Leonard Cohen Bird on the Wire:
Like a bird on the wire
Like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free
Like a worm on a hook
Like a knight from some old fashioned book
I have saved all my ribbons for thee
If I, if I have been unkind
I hope that you can just let it go by
If I, if I have been untrue
I hope you know it was never to you
Oh, like a baby, stillborn
Like a beast with his horn
I have torn everyone who reached out for me
But I swear by this song
And by all that I have done wrong
I will make it all up to thee
I saw a beggar leaning on his wooden crutch
He said to me, "You must not ask for so much"
And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door
She cried to me, "Hey, why not ask for more?"
Oh, like a bird on the wire
Like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free
Tom Waits Mysery is the River of the World:
The higher that the monkey can climb
The more he shows his tail
Call no man happy 'til he dies
There's no milk at the bottom of the pail
God builds a church
The devil builds a chapel
Like the thistles that are growing
'Round the trunk of a tree
All the good in the world
You can put inside a thimble
And still have room for you and me
If there's one thing you can say about Mankind
There's nothing kind about man
You can drive out nature with a pitch fork
But it always comes roaring back again
Misery's the river of the world
Misery's the river of the world
Misery's the river of the world
The higher that the monkey can climb
The more he shows his tail
Call no man happy till he dies
There's no milk at the bottom of the pail
God tempers all the winds for the new shorn lambs
The devil knows the bible like the back of his hand
All the good in the world
You can put inside a thimble
And still have room for you and me
If there's one thing you can say about Mankind
There's nothing kind about man
You can drive out nature with a pitch fork
But it always comes roaring back again
For want of a bird
The sky was lost
For want of a nail
A shoe was lost
For want of a knife
A life was lost
For want of a toy
A child was lost
And misery's the river of the world
Misery's the river of the world
Everybody row, everybody row
Misery's the river of the world
Quicksand By Bowie:
I'm closer to the Golden Dawn
Immersed in Crowley's uniform
Of imagery
I'm living in a silent film
Portraying Himmler's sacred realm
Of dream reality
I'm frightened by the total goal
Drawing to the ragged hole
And I ain't got the power, anymore
No I ain't got the power anymore
I'm the twisted name on Garbo's eyes
Living proof of Churchill's lies
I'm destiny
I'm torn between the light and dark
Where others see their targets
Divine symmetry
Should I kiss the viper's fang
Or herald loud the death of Man
I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thought
And I ain't got the power anymore
Don't believe in yourself
Don't deceive with belief
Knowledge comes with death's release
I'm not a prophet or a stone age man
Just a mortal with the potential of a superman
I'm living on
I'm tethered to the logic of Homo Sapien
Can't take my eyes from the great salvation
Of bullshit faith
If I don't explain what you ought to know
You can tell me all about it
On the next Bardo
I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thought
And I ain't got the power anymore
Don't believe in yourself
Don't deceive with belief
Knowledge comes with death's release
Don't believe in yourself
Don't deceive with belief
Knowledge comes with death's release
This song is amazing in tis scope the imagery and sense of complete depression is quite powerfull definitely a contender for overfloater.
Reznors The Great Below Lyrics are also on par
Staring at the sea
Will she come?
Is there hope for me
After all is said and done
Anything at any price
All of this for you
All the spoils of a wasted life
All of this for you
All the world has closed her eyes
Tired faith all worn and thin
For all we could have done
And all that could have been
Ocean pulls me close
And whispers in my ear
The destiny I've chose
All becoming clear
The currents have their say
The time is drawing near
Washes me away
Makes me disappear
And I descend from grace
In arms of undertone
I will take my place
In the great below
I can still feel you
Even so far away
While Cornell is on Par with Bowie and Reznor, Axl doesn't even factor in the same league. And I have found no single lyricist to touch Cohen and Waits level
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Here we go...
You didn't read the lyrics.
Yes I did. I was already aware of them, but after you posted them, I decided to refresh my memory, and read them. And then I read them. Over and over, to truely sink in the message. And I "got it", when I originally posted.
You've never used drugs, and if so, did it alone and never thought of the consequences.
You were right on number 2 here. I have, and do use drugs, but i've ALWAYS did it alone. As for consequences, thought about it, aware of it, don't give a fuck.
Your Cornell hatred is too deep to properly analyze the tracks.
I don't hate Chris Cornell. He's a great writer, but I don't care for his voice. SG also weren't melodic enough for me. I just didn't clock into alot of their songs. That debut Audioslave record was really the one that "hit me", and I thought it was great.
Those songs are complete opposites. The first is clearly discussing someone else descending into drug use following in their mom's footsteps and him being forced to watch it happen(as you know, the song is about Andrew Wood).
The second song is from his own perspective as an addict sitting around his drug dealer's house for hours and then the experience of consuming the drugs and how it really makes you feel.
I have heard countless drug songs over the years and none of them "nail" that feeling like Cornell did. I have almost cried listening to the song and its not even really supposed to be a sad song. It's just the plain and simple truth and he has a talent of putting that reality into words.
Now this may just be me, but drug songs are drug songs. They are not complete opposites, they are in fact "the same", as I originally stated. Both are drug songs. You breaking down piece-by-piece what each is about, okay I dig, but complete opposites, no.
I gotta say, I can't honestly say I have the "experience" of sitting around a drug dealer's home, feeling the anticipation of the hit, then finally getting it. So on that level, I can't relate. So maybe I don't have the true ability to "feel" it. But Times of Trouble, I can relate to. Just from witnessing friends, descend into madness, while I can use the same stuff, and stay normal. It's one of the great fascinating things in my life experience. Yet tragic beyond all measure at the same time.
That is powerful shit right there. Forget the drug theme for a second, this is a borderline suicide song and I wouldn't be surprised if at least one person in the world killed themselves after listening to it.
The "wanna make it right" line is a killer as well, and love how it's dispersed between the rest of the verses, and screams it in desperation towards the end of the song. You don't "make it right". You only wish to "make it right". Everything you do and feel is the exact opposite of right, and he admits this to himself with "Remember to forget and then rename your shame".
xl is a great songwriter as well, but he's much more "shallow" as a writer than Cornell. Axl touches the surface while Cornell digs much deeper. Sometimes too deep. Axl as a lone songwriter keeps treading the same ground, and Cornell is willing to broaden his horizons.
There are actually a few Axl/GNR type songs on Cornell's resume, and if you aren't much of a Soundgarden fan and/or never heard these two songs, just read the words and you can probably picture Axl singing them.....
Great keen perspective here. Especially on Axl. I don't see alot of people willing to admit that about Axl's lyrics all too often. Axl very much has that romantic hero thing going on with his material. He's rebellious, intelligent and very self-aware of his own feelings, yet at the same time, very fragile, "shallow", and borderline narcissistic in his lyrics.
I think you hit the nail on the head of this discussion. Axl has a very small body of work, specifically for someone so high profile. In fact, I cant think of someone of his caliber with a smaller discog that didn't die young, and that says a lot about him as an artist(good and bad).
Cornell has so many releases(solo and with two bands) that it's easy for anyone to say certain songs(or albums) suck. Hell, I don't even like some of his material. When he's "on", he is fucking on and there's no one better. I could say the same for Axl, but he's very rarely "on". While they are both my favorite singers(let's place M.I.A. in the middle of those two), Cornell's body of work is more impressive. This may be due to the sheer quantity of it and how much gold is dispersed throughout. Axl went from 93-08 with NOTHING. That is the equivalent of Cornell killing Soundgarden in 1994 and not returning until his solo album Scream. Please. He deserves brownie points just for being able to move on from Soundgarden and still kicking major amounts of ass.
You're right though....that first Audioslave record is just a MONSTER album.
That Audioslave debut is a MONSTER album. His finest work imo. Maybe not lyrically, but the "all around package". Ultimately what I have to say about Chris, is that he just never appealed to me on a music level, the way he did to you. I think it's great that you can listen to the SG catalog, and have an almost spiritual experience listening to it. Alice In Chains would've been what appealed to me on that level. Obviously I wouldn't dare to get into a lyrical discussion of Cornell vs. Cantrell, because Cornell owns Cantrell. But that's not what AIC is about. It's more of a Pink Floyd-like experience, rather than poetry, which I think Cornell has down to a purity, at least in his vintage catalog.
Cornell in alot of ways appeals to that "deep" philosophical context. Axl appeals more to everyday life. Obviously if you're knee deep in drug addiction, maybe even nearing a suicidal territory something like Overfloater is gonna hit you. But if you're heart broken to the point of a suicidal territory, This I Love is gonna hit you quicker. But at the same time, both songs end game, are the exact same extreme emotion.
That's why I have to tip my hat to both Chris AND Axl, because as artists, as writers, they are able to take both of their respective audiences to that level with their music, and I think that's amazing.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
I am just waiting for D to enter Jon Bon Jovi into this discussion.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Not many know but Paul Tobias was Soundgarden. He is Dylan, too and David Bowie. Anything good on this planet comes from him. He's much older than you guys would think.
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Cornell is like Myles Kennedy... great voice etc, i can see why people like him but neither do anything for me... I don't feel anything when they sing... it just feels like the same song over and over and over..
With Axl.. he just has a way of touching the bottom depths of your soul with his voice
of course TIL is terrible lyrically, but Axl with his voice and emotion makes it work. same withTWAT
on paper,sure, Cornell is deeper and uses fancier words.. but sometimes simple is better.
There are two people i love every song they've ever done and that is Axl and Jon Bon Jovi.. both have a way with melodies and song crafting that makes whatever they do awesome.
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
ok lots of stuff to hit on
Cornell.. yeah im not anexpert on his catalog cause the stuff I've heard i didn't like..so i tend to not waste a lot of time on stuff i dont like.
i put him in the Bono category.. he has something to his voice that just is nails onchalkboard for me.. i can't listen.
Contraband is a hell of a lot more thanFTP and Slither
YGNR amazingballad
Loving the ALien also is very deep and awesome
rockers that kill CD
Suckertrain Blues
Do it for the kids
Spectacle
Headspace
Dirty Little Thing
Setme Free is a fucking beast
Slither
I agree about the album being recorded bad.. Slash mentioned how he didn't like theway the guitars were recorded.
CB really hit me once i saw them live and u got to see how much that shit really kicks ass.
CB still does it for me when i run or workout..it gets the adrenaline and blood pumping.
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Cornell is like Myles Kennedy... great voice etc, i can see why people like him but neither do anything for me... I don't feel anything when they sing... it just feels like the same song over and over and over..
With Axl.. he just has a way of touching the bottom depths of your soul with his voice
of course TIL is terrible lyrically, but Axl with his voice and emotion makes it work. same withTWAT
on paper,sure, Cornell is deeper and uses fancier words.. but sometimes simple is better.
There are two people i love every song they've ever done and that is Axl and Jon Bon Jovi.. both have a way with melodies and song crafting that makes whatever they do awesome.
Cornell and Myles Kennedy shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. Myles is much more of a stock rock singer who writes very average lyrics.
I'm not going to even waste my time refuting anything you've said about Cornell since it's obvious you haven't heard nearly enough of his work to give him an honest chance.
Well, that and you think Bon Jovi is good. 
I would like to know how exactly Cornell uses 'fancier' words? I guess, what is your definition of 'fancy' words?...
Karma goes to James for the description of Overfloater. You nailed it.
There have been maybe two songs by Axl that I've listened to that have hit me on a level that I am uncomfortable with.
There are many more Cornell songs that have struck a chord with me and I'm actually uncomfortable with how brazenly honest and deep his lyrics are. That and they are always backed by the perfect music and vocals which amplifies the effect ten fold. Cornell is his writing somehow can break down every wall and write on a level that is nothing short of 100% honesty.
Another thing about him that makes him such an amazing writer is how non-narcissistic he is in his writing. When he writes, you can see that he makes mistakes and knows the consequences.
When I'm Down is the perfect description of that relationship that only lasts so long as one partner is fulfilling their need to help someone else out. As soon as that aspect is lost, the dynamic of the relationship falls apart. And it's a mutual thing, both people are only in love so long as one person is down and the other is happy. That for me is deeper than someone lamenting about being heartbroken.
Re: Slash V Axl V Izzy V Whoeverthe fuck
Back to the drug thing as I think it shows how different Cornell is to old GNR in that regard.....
While AFD is pretty much a flawless record, its coming from a different place. While it will always have that dirty/sleazy feel to it, it is actually a pretty innocent record in hindsight, even though at the time I thought it was hot shit and very "adult" so to speak. I know they were in their early 20s when they recorded it, but the lyrics themselves are obviously inspired by their experiences as teens up until it was recorded. The joys of youth, the sky is the limit, the whole world is in front of you, chasing as much pussy as you can, discovering the wonderful world of drugs, the "danger" of life from the innocent doe's eyes,etc.
That's what AFD is in a nutshell.
Overfloater, Times of Trouble, Fell On Black Days, etc. are these same kids at 30-40 NOT looking forward, but looking backwards at the many years of regret and missed opportunity. Realizing that you are in fact living on borrowed time and the infinite "get out of jail free cards" of youth no longer exist. You start questioning your own existence(Show Me How To Live) and what it all means, if it even means anything. You go from the happy go lucky 18 year old kid to the 40 year old sad clown.
I think I finally answered my own long ago question about why I no longer listen to AFD and haven't in years even though I consider it the greatest album ever made.
I simply cannot relate to it anymore. It was a very special record to me and the soundtrack of my teen years. Those days are long gone.
You/Me at 18.....
Cars are crashin' every night
I drink n' drive
everything's in sight
I make the fire
But I miss the firefight
I hit the bull's eye every night
Well I'm a west coast struttin'
One bad mother
Got a rattlesnake suitcase
Under my arm
Said I'm a mean machine
Been drinkin' gasoline
An honey you can make my motor hum
I get up around seven
Get outta bed around nine
And I don't worry about nothin' no
'Cause worrin's a waste of my... time
Sowin' all your wild oats
In another's luxuries
Yesterday was Tuesday
Maybe Thursday you can sleep
But school starts much too early
And this hotel wasn't free
So party till your connection calls
Honey I'll return the keys
You/Me at 40.....
Whatsoever I've feared has come to life
Whatsoever I've fought off became my life
Just when everyday seemed to greet me with a smile
Sunspots have faded
And now I'm doing time
Cause I fell on black days
Stare your shadow down
Remember to forget and then rename your shame
I wanna make it right
And with the early dawn
Moving right along
Couldn't buy an eye full of sleep
And in the aching nights under satellites
I was not received
Built with stolen parts
Telephone in my heart
Someone get me a priest
To put my mind to bed
This ringing in my head
Is this a cure or is this a disease?
Nail in my hand
From my creator
You gave me life
Now show me how to live
And in the afterbirth
On the quiet earth
Let the stains remind you
You thought you made a man
You better think again
Before my role defines you
I know I'm headed for the bottom
But I'm riding you all the way
How would I know
That this could be my fate??
Where did that "west coast struttin', one bad mother" go? What happened to him? Doesn't he have stories to tell like Cornell? Lessons that might be learned? Did the harsh realities of life never set in? That "one bad mother" is 48.
