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Re: The Wrestling thread
Did you know Vince Russo went full on to try to bring HBK to WCW when he took over? I wonder what would have happened. It might have been a disaster, but HBK doesn't get near the credit for changing the WWF and brining in the Attitude era. Who knows...
Sorry misterid, um...
Rock was midcard heel at that time? He wasn't the face of the company, of course Austin was going to win. ...And Wrestlemania 15? 1999. Austin was the face of company going against corporate heel champion. The only time before Wrestlemania 19 they ever faced each other once when both were faces was at Wrestlemania 17. Austin Heel turn when he needed Vince's help and 20 chair shots to stop Rock.
??? 
I was responding to the thought that Austin jobbed to Rock out of the goodness of his heart, which wasn't the case. The Rock paid his dues (specifially to Stone Cold) and then became the face of the WWF. It's the way it's SUPPOSED to happen. So.... I don't know what you're disagreeing with, tbh.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Did you know Vince Russo went full on to try to bring HBK to WCW when he took over? I wonder what would have happened. It might have been a disaster, but HBK doesn't get near the credit for changing the WWF and brining in the Attitude era. Who knows....
I agree with that 100% I always felt HBK was the guy who spear headed what eventually became the attitude era. He along with Triple H were the guys who began taking things into R rated territory and they were the first to bring a real edge to wrestling. Pardon the Rated R superstar pun 
Being that HBK was THE man in WWF made it easier for other guys to push the limits since he was already doing it. I mean even Taker's character got pretty controversial for a while.
I was aware that WCW went after HBK and I'm glad they never got him but it is interesting to think what would've happened if they had. Maybe no attitude era in WWF? But Again I think all the guys in WWF get credit. Without Stone Cold it doesn't go where it went, without DX it doesn't go were it went. I mean they even had the perfect counter balance of the nerdy PG guy like Kurt Angle who in that era his character worked so well becaue of all the other "attitude" stuff
I think had HBK gone to WCW they'd have burried him as a mid carder or a main eventer that they never did anything with kinda like Bret Hart. WCW sucked during that time I think. They had 3 hour long shows and the only part that was interesting was always the last 20 minutes when NWO came out. That was pretty much it. The WWF had top tier talent running the entire program not just limited to a 15 minute segement. WWF was always gonna win but yeah WHAT IF WCW had been able to sign HBK and/or HHH or if they had stolen The Rock.........
What would've been cool is if at the height of their popularity is if nWo(Hall & Nash & Hogan) had come to WWF in say 1999 or 2000 and fueded with DX(HHH, X-Pac, NAO) and then have HBK as the wild card possibly playing both sides for personal glory It never happened but that would've been the best in my opinion even if HBK wasn't able to wrestle during that period.
Re: The Wrestling thread
-D- wrote:Without Stone Cold, it would be called WCW
Nope. Austin was a big player but he was never that big or that important. He wasn't the difference between WWF going under or not.
It was a group effort. WWF had the better stars going forward and it shows. Rock, Austin, Taker, HHH, HBK, New Age Outlaws, Foley, etc etc WCW may have had the long time legends but they didn't have a new generation of true mega stars. WWF did and time shows that to be the case. Like I said Austin was a big player but they all were. WWF had better rivalries, better strorylines, better wrestling when it came to their top tier guys. As the total package even if WCW took the lead in ratings for a while it was never gonna win in the long run.
One can say tyson vs stone cold was major turning point in monday night wars
Re: The Wrestling thread
One can say tyson vs stone cold was major turning point in monday night wars
That was acually HBK vs Stone Cold. Tyson was merely a bit part in the rivalry. He was briefly a "honorary" member of DX leading up to the match and then was the special guest referee/special enforcer. He counted the pinfall against HBK then "knocked out" HBK after the match. Mike Tyson was a big draw to that but that rivalry between HBK and Stone Cold had taken off and was awesome before Tyson was ever involved. But yeah your'e right bringing Tyson in was pretty big.
Re: The Wrestling thread
I agree with D wholeheartedly. Without Austin -- it would be called WCW today.
WWF had Taker, HBK, HHH, all of the above before Austin and they were fucking tanking. And fast. Austin's gimmick with Vince was probably the biggest work in the history of the business and changed the entire landscape. WWF: Attitude Era was born with DX, but Austin's gimmick is what put it over. DX was considered lesser to nWo but anyone and everyone I knew, including the ratings, because nWo on WCW had established stars like Nash, Hogan & Hall that everyone already identified with.
Alot of people forget this, but the Attitude Era WAS NOT POPULAR AT ALL when it first started. It in fact sent the wrestling fans into a fury who were livid that Vince was letting every one of their beloved stars go, and especially peaked when Bret Hart, who was enormously popular, was let go to WCW.
"Vince Russo tried to get HBK for WCW"
Ding ding for him. Means jack fucking shit. HBK was a hardcore Corey Haim-level drug addict at that point popping Vicodin, Soma, Valium, Xanax and anything he could stick down his throat at the time. He was a train wreck, and HBK's "find my smile" and "fake injury" after WM14 were all covers for his out of control drug abuse. Vince couldn't do anything because HBK was his biggest superstar at the time, Austin was rising like a rocket, but he needed HBK to put him over (something HBK H-A-T-E-D at the time).
All parties later admitted that HBK's return for that match with Austin & Tyson, they had to basically slap duct-tape on HBK, shove some uppers and downers down his throat and throw him into a ring to make that legendary match happen. HBK later admitted he barely got through it.
So we can't turn around and credit HBK for the rise of the Attitude Era, when HBK was done and gone by early 1998. Granted I DO credit DX, but I still think without Austin, WCW tramples WWF.
Even in 2002 during the WCW/ECW invasion storyline, Vince turning Austin from a heel back into a face, and the fact in the storyline it changed the landscape of those fights was an intentional work on McMahon's part to basically say -- "Stone Cold" Steve Austin is what put WWF over WCW. Without Austin, WWF gets it's ass kicked. That was intentional on their part. Once again, HBK was just before his comeback at that point, while Austin was nearing the end.
To credit it as a group effort is just ludicrous. You could've put Val Venis in that Rock-Corporation angle with Austin 3:16 Stone Cold, and you still have a LEGENDARY work.
Taker had already been working his gimmick for a damn decade and was getting NO traction.
If Stone Cold doesn't show up at WWF, and Stone Cold doesn't become "Stone Cold" and Steve doesn't find that character and doesn't do his gimmick.... WWE would not exist today.
Everyone I knew ran to WCW because they had Hogan & Hart back in the day. It took people like me on the streets wearing Stone Cold camo hats, and laying stunners on 14-year old shit talkers, and people like me getting up in front of teachers and busting into Stone Cold works in class, and getting thrown into suspension and doing all of this grassroots stuff, where kids starting tuning in more to WWF because it was "taboo". Then suddenly their parents flipped over, and once that Austin/McMahon, the working man vs. his millionaire boss angle happened -- it fucking exploded.
I've never seen or been apart of anything like it. It was like being an original fan of The Beatles in the early-to-mid 60's. Even when you lived it, you had no idea what you were witnessing would become legend one day.
None of that happens without Stone Cold. None. I can remember laying stunners on every fucking Goldberg shirt I saw. Just boom, done. Carted off.
Fun times
Re: The Wrestling thread
Your perspective is all you perspective. Nobody here where I lived ever gave two shits about WCW or nWo. FACT. In that whole era WWF ruled where I lived and DX was ten times more popular than NWO then and even more so now.
You're dellusional Axlin by saying it wasn't a group effort. Austin's character is never possible if it weren't for HBK and the way he developed his character. Talk about drugs and train wrecks and off camera drama all you want HBK was still the best in ring performer and promo cutter on a nightly basis of either organization. His attitude, his bravado, his defiance were all things that paved the way for Austin's character. That's just a fact. HBK was turning RAW into an almost R rated show. It allowed Austin to be who he was and in reality Austin's character was tame compared to HBK's. Hell yeah people loved Austin's character but he's not flipping the bird and swilling beer without HBK first becoming what he had become. Without HBK, Austin's character never fully developes or even begins in the first place. And news flash Taker's character during attitude era was way more sinister than anything he had done before. To say he had no traction before that is a fuckin joke. To say his attitude era character wasn't controversial at the time would also be a joke.
As for it taking guys like you pounding the pavement with Stone Cold shirts........ Ummmm... Ok. You make it sound like Austin was some underground up and coming talent. How hipster of you 
You sure you aren't/weren't a little too emotionally attached to your Austin fandom? Around here everyone knew who he was and we didn't need street teams to do it. We all knew him well as the Ringmaster so yeah it didn't take people on the street shouting who Austin 3:16 was for us to care. Nobody was watching WCW up here and yes we had it on regular tv just like WWF and airing at the same time. DX crotch chops were the norm around here from the get go. Canada as a fanbase has always been ahead of the curve compared to the States it seems(something that has even been acnowldged by wrestlers over the years) and we all watched and stuck with WWF cause it was a better and more interesting product with better entertainers. HBK was the guy who spearheaded the Attidtude era and then others shared the ball and ran with it. THAT is the truth. Had HBK gone to WCW Stone Cold never happens, DX never happens and WWF is in serious trouble. I give Austin credit big time for the roll he payed but he and he alone wasn't responsible fo WWF not going under. Far, far from it.
Saying Austin is only reason the WWF survived is like saying Nirvana(Austin) is the only reason hair metal(PG wrestling) died and not acknowldging the other bands of that time like Soundgarden(HHH), Pearl Jam(the Rock), Alice in Chains(Taker) etc etc and then ignoring the impact Guns N' Roses(HBK) had on Hair metal(PG wrestling)
Now can you dig that..... SUCKA!!!!
Re: The Wrestling thread
So let me get this straight. The WWE fucks up big time and allows the Rock to beat Punk for the title. Then they make Cena win the Rumble so now all signs point to a Rock vs Cena rematch at Wrestlemania and Cena winning back the title. Even if he fights Punk instead of Rock, Cena's gonna win the title. Fuck John Cena. Such a terrible character.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Lesnar signed a new 2 year contract. Awesome, it also means that Triple H isn't guaranteed to get the win back at Wrestlemania now. It also means we're gonna get Punk/Lesnar after Wrestlemania which I look forward too. Basically at the minute Heyman is behind Punk, Lesnar and The Shield.
The Royal Rumble wasn't bad PPV, but the rumble match itself was way too predictable for my liking. I liked Rock/Punk, but they were obviously holding back, they didn't go all out in it.
With Taker returning very soon too, show wouldn't be as bad without the 3rd hour. Exciting 2 months coming, even if we already know results 
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