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Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
As far as him molesting children goes, its simply disgusting and evil on all levels and cant be defended. The guy was a child molester. period. The book I read that I mentioned above actually tried to figure out exactly what started it. Basically his father abusing him was clearly the trigger for it, and his issues with women seems to stem from his brothers fucking girls in the same room where he would sleep as a child.
I do agree with Mike that he was trying to recreate a normal childhood for himself, yet in an extremely macabre way. Its sad that he was unable(or unwilling) to get help when he was young, and also sad that so many people enabled him.
As I got older and all the info about his private life came out, it sort of tainted the magic of those songs. I still love the songs, but you view them in an entirely different way lyrically. Supposedly he didn't write P.Y.T., but its pretty obvious that he did. In hindsight its shocking the song even made it on to a record. Remember the Time is my favorite song from him, but its obvious he isn't singing that from the perspective of real experience. More of a longing to have such an experience.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Although I have always thought he was a weird pervert it's still shocking.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Although I have always thought he was a weird pervert it's still shocking.
In my opinion the music has to be separated from the sickness of his personal life. He just died, and even though he was a molester and molesters don't deserve any praise, his music and his impact on our culture deserve respect and the tribute he is getting. I've been listening to MJ since getting home, and actually almost cried while listening to She's Out Of My Life. Its just really sad to see such icons pass away.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
I hate to say this and have not read the whole thread, but sometimes I worry about our boy Axl. Stress is a stone cold killer....
Yeah it's pesemistic but this kind of thing to me is a wake up call to GNR, and VR, and other people such as myself..who keep putting off dreams and goals for the time being.
How long before the millage on the lifestyles of duff, slash and even axl catches up to them? Things like that make me stress that it takes VR years to find a singer, and GNR years to get a tour started and that kind of thing. And obviously that's just the music side of things, its even sadder on a personal level.
Obviously I wish everyone in GNR and VR the best of health, but incidents like this tradic passing of MJ really make me stop and wonder how long any of us have left.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
This is still just shocking. This is the first major musical influence, lost in my lifetime (no Kurt fucking Cobain doesn't count, although I did like the guy).
Jackson's loss is huge. He will be ranked up in the music Gods, very high. The Jackson 5 defined the 70's, and Michael Jackson defined the 1980s. I grew up with his music, and it was undeniably good (maybe not better than Gimme Shelter though, lol). I just recently watched Back To The Future Part III, and there's that whole scene with Marty in the bar, and he does the whole Moonwalk routine and hums/sings Billie Jean (I think), then does the "whoo" spins, and jumps on the board to throw the Spitoon on Tannen. The reason that scene springs to mind, is it's just a regular 'ole film from 1990 with an MJ reference. Part II also references Jackson heavily.
And it's just one/two film(s) among many that reference Michael Jackson. Right now, at this exact moment, i'm watching The Golden Girls, and Dorothy just made a Michael Jackson joke.
MJ was engrained in the culture of the world. He was a hero, a friend to music lovers, and a punchline to others.
He will be greatly missed, and I think i'm gonna dig back into his discography just as a memorial to him.
As a musician, Michael is unmatched. One of the greats.
As a person... he's another one of the sad tragic stories of a man who had it all, and yet had nothing. Severely abused by Joe Jackson, who knows the extent of damage done to him mentally that carried on throughout his life, enough to turn him "white".
I was one of the few people who believed in Jackson's innocence in 1994 (?), when the allegations broke. But I think for me, the conviction came years later. After that Martin Bashir interview with ABC News, I was convinced of his guilt. At the very very least, he had an inappropriate relationship with children. No adult man should be willingly accepting invited children to his house to sleep in his bed. And i'm not that much of a prude. If he was a grown man, sleeping in the same bed with his 16 year old daughter, weird, yes, but I would kind of just let it pass. But when you have a kid, very young, sleeping in the bed of a older man, a stranger, that's just...strange.
Not to mention, like James mentioned, instead of getting it on with Brooke Shields, Michael spent his time kicking up very close friendships with Emmanuel Lewis, Corey Feldman, and Macauley Culkin, among others.
But then again, when you've got Corey Feldman talking all kinds of inappropriate stuff about Jackson, and then Corey talks the real truth, and you find out the 'inappropriate' stuff, was basically that Michael left out porno mags, that a 13 year old boy (Feldman) found. BUT, when Michael saw that Corey found them, he made a point to explain to Corey what he saw, and to not feel weird, or chastize the boy because of what he picked up. Maybe a tricky situation, but Michael sounds like a responsible adult man in that situation, and Feldman felt it was 'incriminating'. Not a shock.
Regardless, Jackson's life is absolutely facisnating, just like Elvis, and PLENTY of movies will be made about him.
Either way, right now i'm cranking Gone Too Soon from Dangerous. Damn great artist this man was.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
It's weird having to separate the art from the man, but it's essential. Nikki Sixx and Tommy essentially raped a woman, Vince Neil got drunk and killed someone, the list goes on and on and on.
Just goes to show that this world is a damn fucked up place... and it's evident in the music.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
But then again, when you've got Corey Feldman talking all kinds of inappropriate stuff about Jackson, and then Corey talks the real truth, and you find out the 'inappropriate' stuff, was basically that Michael left out porno mags, that a 13 year old boy (Feldman) found. BUT, when Michael saw that Corey found them, he made a point to explain to Corey what he saw, and to not feel weird, or chastize the boy because of what he picked up. Maybe a tricky situation, but Michael sounds like a responsible adult man in that situation, and Feldman felt it was 'incriminating'. Not a shock.
That's called "grooming". Whether or not Feldman took the bait or not is beside the point, but MJ was definitely grooming him.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Well short of that, MJ had him around for years, and never made a move, even though Feldman was getting molested elsewhere.
Currently listening to Stephen Davis (Hammer of the Gods), who claims the molestation stuff was absolute bullshit. That Jackson was conditioned for years to sleep his brothers, sisters & cousins beds by Joe Jackson, and that was his safety zone from the world, so the sleeping with kids thing was his way of dealing with stress.
He also said Jackson had a bit of a Batman & Robin (his words) relationship with alot of children, which would explain the Feldman thing, and the Feldman emulation later on (Dream a Little Dream era). Davis claimed Jackson was the big time rich man, that became very reclusive and sheltered from the world due his riches and star (Bruce Wayne), and he'd take on this young, misfortuned kids, to provide them the guidance and childhood he didn't get (Dick Grayson).
Interesting analogy by Davis.
Davis also claimed, like you said James, that some of Jackson's abnormal behavior was caused by extreme abuse of rx drugs, which is what resulted in his emanciated look during the second trial.
But that Jackson would never do what he was accused against, and that it was a creation of greed and a lust for ratings by the media. Even now, the media is talking about the sexual allegations, instead of the man's musical career.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Yeah I always figured maybe he was just a bit mental not a pedophile. Like if he still had the mentality of a child and felt like a 10yo boy does himsself. Then it made sence in his head to be friends with kids, and do stuff like have sleep-overs and sleep next to another 10yo kid, and it could all be innocent and non-sexual.
Crazy yes, and not normal behaviour from an adult, but not necesarily what us adults would assume is the purpose behind having another person in your bed.
Anyhow...true or false...he was a musical genius and a great loss to our generation, and it's particualrly sad IMO that these comback shows didnt happen - i feel it could have really relaunced him as at the moment everything old is new again (eg Ac/Dc, Metallica)...
