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Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
If there's any revisionist history going on, its not by those discussing the child abuse allegations. The mainstream media is ignoring those aspects of his life, and have been since his death. I know you mentioned a specific program earlier in this thread(which I need to look for on youtube), but other than that, nothing.
There's nothing wrong with people wanting to try and get to the bottom of what really went on in that aspect of his life. There is something wrong with people trying to act like it never happened, which is happening on a mass scale.
James, what are you freakin' watching? All I keep hearing is the allegations. During Jackson's memorial today, the news kept referencing them up to the memorial, and even during Jackson's memorial, on stage, Texas Congresswoman Shiela Jackson Lee proclaimed Jackson's innocence, directly referencing the allegations during the man's own memorial service... on live TV.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
My rebuttal
Yeah, that was MJ's defense of the books, but do you think he is going to be truthful about it? Why would a fan send him such a book and why would it remain in his house? You may say well maybe he didn't look at his gifts, but I am sure he had employees that went through everything that came through the house so again why would it remain in his house? Normal people would be disgusted by such a book and wouldn't want it lying around the house. I'm sure you wouldn't find such a book in any other celebrities house. Yet a book of nude pre-pubescent boys shows up in the home of the man who sleeps with pre-pubescent boys. Gee, what a shocker and a coincidence.
8) It was every night for 30 days as was testified. No one said his parents weren't guilty of bad judgment. Clearly they were just as guilty as MJ because as I said no one would have let their child sleep with him if he was a nobody, but they were blinded by the glitz, glammer, money, and gifts. That's why JC has refused to associate with his mother since it happened because he feels she essentially sold him to MJ. And it's not just her. Every single parent that let their kid spend one night in his bed is guilty. So the fact that they exercised extremely poor judgment (to put it mildly) is not a defense of MJ. They're all guilty.
10) Maybe his paranoia stemmed from the fact that he had something to hide.
11) I'd like to see the proof where it happened under sedation. He told a psychiatrist, lawyers, law enforcement, and prosecutors. That doesn't seem forced and his story was consistent each time. Moreover, he was able to accurately able to describe MJ's genitals which prompted MJ to immediately settle.
12) You are right, my mistake. I didn't realize she was in his life at that point. However, I don't think any innocent person would settle against such accusations just because a friend/lover encouraged them to do so. If you have nothing to hide and people are trying to extort you as you claim, then why would you give into their extortion? Such as settlement would forever cloud him in suspicion and would make him vunerable to more extortion attempts in the future. It's not exactly in your best interest to settle there unless you're guilty and want to make it go away.
13) Correct, but he wasn't the one handling the civil case that settled to my knowledge
14) Actually her son did testify at the trial that he was molested by MJ and had been in therapy for 5 years afterwards. Again if you are so innocent why give into someone's extortion? Why not have her prosecuted or sue her? There was also an audio tape of MJ's goon begging her not to go to the authorities.
15) Yeah, him. There was quite a bit written about him in those articles and about how employees were terrified to talk because of him and how he intimidates people. Also people involved in the case received threats. Even JC and his family. JC wanted to be protected and he wasn't.
16) Sure he was, but he wasn't found innocent on all charges. Not guilty = they were unable to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It doesn't necessarily prove someone's innocence. I don't see how his celebrity wasn't a factor. Do you honestly think anyone would accept an average joe who liked to sleep with boys? No way, it's absurd. At least one of the jurors was a fan of his and another went to Neverland as a kid. Could it be that they were biased from the start?
So Maureen Orth would only be a great source if she would have said "He was a true icon. This is a terrible tragedy and the world is an emptier place without him?" Get real, it doesn't make her any more biased than the loonies who can't get enough of MJ. Did it ever occur to you that she came to the conclusion while researching for her articles since she actually spoke to people involved in both cases? I don't think she set out with an agenda.
8. I haven't heard the Chandler's confirm anything, so that pretty much neutralizes that. If Jackson was guilty of anything, it was that he was too guillible in letting people use him, and let his own ego get in the way of common sense.
10. That sounds just like something a cop would say. Just because people don't spill their life story to you at the drop of a hat, doesn't mean they have something to hide Sheriff Coltrane.
11. His fuckin' DAD said it. Back then and it's been heavily documented. Did you skip over it? JC's dad sedated him, planted and/or pulled the info out of JC, THEN sent him to the psychiatrist. And Jordan himself back then confirmed, this happened first, THEN he saw a psychiatrist, and later the authorites.
12. No offense, but Michael Jackson didn't seem like the brighest legal mind ever known. To everyone involved, including Lisa Marie, she was his world at the time, and if she said "blow your brains out", he would've done it. She convinced him, it was doing far more damage to his rep to keep the defense going, and that he should just settle to make it go away. He did - it made it worse. Jackson specifically told his inner circle during the second trial, he was going to fight this one, like he should've done with the first one, that settling just made him seem more guilty. This is according to close friend, and Jackson historian J. Randy Tamberelli.
13. He probably wasn't, but you referenced the lawyer who was pushing the case back and back and back. I believe that was Cochran.
14. Jackson wanted to fight it, but all of his closest confidantes convinced him to settle to make it go away. And he did. And it made it worse. It was a total mistake on Jackson's part. One he refused to make again during the second trial.. thus, his acquittal. And as for the tape of the 'goon', look it, just because Jackson sends some people to beg them to not go to court and play out their extortion, doesn't mean a thing. You make it out, like Jackson sent the fuckin' Joker and Harley Quinn over to their house.
15. Nobody needed protection. I remember those employees, and that case back in the mid 90's, and they all did the talk show circuit, and their credibility was shot to hell. They were about as credible hating on Jackson, as Debbie Rowe is defending him. They were scorned employees looking for their piece of the pie. That's another mistake from Jackson's life. He surrounded himself by beggers and hangers on, and cut out others, and didn't hesistate to fire people and not pay them. Doesn't mean he's a child molestor, just means he's a bad employer.
16. Have you ever participated in jury duty? Ever? That's what lawyers do. The prosecution gets their half that have issues with the type of case at hand, and the defense gets their half with ones looking for innocence and they meet in the middle. That's how ALL jury duties work from my experience. For every one person on that jury that thought Jackson was the greatest thing since sliced bread, there was one other one that thought he was a lifetime member to NAMBLA. The defense won out. That's how it works.
What your biggest problem is dude, is you let the court of public opinion dicate someone's guilt or innocence. And that's just not how it works. Jackson can never win with you. If he's found guilty, he's guilty. If he's found not guilty, he's still guilty, he just "beat it". That's called a religion. It can never be proven wrong, and there's nothing no one can do to change your mind. For every one fact your given, you have a counter. I'm sure hundreds of years ago, you would've been right there stoning someone to death in the public street 3 hours have their accusal.
Like Faldor said, I don't want to live where you live. It's sad, vindictive, and ignorant.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
1. "Basically" does not equal confession. I think he certainly flirted with one and I get your point, but at the end of the day he never actually confessed and has always maintained his innocence.
2. Sure, in the eyes of the law he is innocent. That doesn't mean he has never ever molested a kid. Do you believe every single person that was found not guilty never committed the crime they were accused of committing?
3) LOL they are not sources? They found him not guilty so that's good enough for you to proclaim his innocence, but when those same people who sat there through all of the evidence and testimony has said they think he was a pedophile it means nothing??
4) OJ has maintained his innocence until this very day. No one was in his bed room every single time he slept with a child so sorry no one was capable of backing up his claims. Only MJ and the boys know the truth.
5) It has never been backed up because again no one knows the truth except those that were in the bed room.
6. I understand your point, but it is moot in this case. What you described is something on an entirely different level than what MJ was doing. He was sleeping with pre-pubescent boys on a regular basis. That looks terrible no matter how you slice it and it doesn't really look any less shady than if he was sleeping with girls on a regular basis. Either way it looks highly suspicious. If he was so concerned about how sleeping with young girls would appear, then why wasn't he concerned with the same thing about boys? It looked just as shady, especially after the first accusation. Jacko supporters like to say he was naive and didn't know he was doing anything wrong, then the same should have applied to females as well. You can't have it both ways. If he was this naive child-like man who just loved children then the same should have applied to ALL children. Yet he only targeted boys in a specific age range.
7) The allegations are part of the story, sure, because that was a part of his life no one can ignore, but people are treating him as if it was an afterthought.
8) I gave you facts and you can spouting nonsense.
9) He is an officer of the court. His job is not to provide evidence outside of the court and I am sure the evidence remains in storage like every other case.
10) Sure, but the optics of having an alarm system when you sleep with boys in your room look bad no matter how you spin it.
11) If it killed their case and it was so weak then why would an innocent man give money to those who are trying to extort him? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Walked in on him taking a leak LOL, yes so everything is just one huge coincidence. He's some man who had this weird obsession with sharing his bed with boys, had books of nude boys, was accused of molesting boys, settled with his accusers, and one of his accusers was able to describe his genitals but it's all one huge coincidence. He's totally harmless, man!
12) As I mentioned in my previous post that I was mistake on this point, but again if you are an innocent man who is winning a case then the last thing you do is settle unless you have something to hide. Settling does more harm than good and any lawyer worth his salt would explain that. Heck anyone with common sense who had a reputation to protect understands that.
13) Sure, that's what a good lawyer does, but what lawyer says you have to delay it because you may have to plead the 5th if you are innocent? It wasn't Cochran who did that BTW
14) Jason Francia, the handsome son of a former personal maid at Neverland, was the only young man to come forward and tell the jury that Michael Jackson had molested him, beginning when he was seven. After five years of therapy, the devout evangelical Christian said, he now works as a mentor to troubled young people and as a salesman of auto parts. He was 17, he said, when he learned that his mother, Blanca Francia, had agreed to a $2.4 million settlement with Jackson over three allegations of fondling him, and he had found out only two days prior to taking the stand that she had sold her story to tabloid TV for $20,000.
The link to the article is in my original post.
15) Common sense.
16) Most celebrities are not convicted or get off with a slap with a wrist. There is no doubt the celebrity plays a factor see Simpson, O.J.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
I know i've posted back-to-back-to-back, but there's alot of shit to cover.
I just want to say, I watched the Memorial service today. Very touching, and I didn't think I would get emotional, but I burst into tears when Paris spoke about her father. "I just wanted to let everyone know, that my daddy loved me very much", and she burst into tears.
I couldn't hold it together either.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
8) His mother said it on the stand at MJ's most recent trial
10) It doesn't mean he does, but it doesn't mean he doesn't either. When you sleep with boys in your bed room and you seem to be paranoid of those who approach your bed room, you are going to raise eyebrows. If he never invited children into his bed it would be a non-issue, but since he did you can't so easily blow it off and say he was just paranoid.
11) I must have skipped it, but it doesn't change the fact that his story was consistent and he was able to describe his genitals and MJ immediately settled after that.
12)But he had lawyers who were brilliant legal minds, he had relatives, and friends beyond that. Don't you think they would have encouraged him to fight it if he was innocent? He had no choice but to fight the second one. The first one was a civil trial which gave him the option to settle. The second one was a criminal trial and he was unable to settle. His choices were to plead guilty or to fight the charges. The fact that he said he was going to fight them is laughable. Of course he was going to fight it, he certainly wasn't going to plead guilty.
13) His name was Fields I believe. Definitely not Cochran
14) Again he was unable to make the second one go away. He had no choice to go but to go to trial. Lucikly for him he won, but if he had the choice who knows if he would have chose to go to trial? Doesn't mean a thing, if you are innocent why would you do that? This guy wasn't some friendly lawyer or something, he was a guy jailed for carrying a briefcase and he hired someone to put a bullet through someone's car windshield (unrelated to MJ). Goon is appropriate
15) JC asked for protection and others have said they were scared of MJ's goon. Isn't it funny how MJ surrounds himself with people with no credibility that can easily be bought off? Gee, I wonder why.
16) I understand how it works, but I also understand jurors can go in there with preconceived notions. See OJ Simpson jury, a mostly black jury that didn't want to convict a black man
I'm a woman first of all, and secondly I let my intelligence dictate what I believe. I love the hypocrisy coming from you. It's okay to believe OJ Simpson is guilty even though he was acquitted because it fits your point of view, but it's absolutely wrong to believe MJ is guilty when he was acquitted because it doesn't fit your point of view.
Honestly, I feel the same way about you and those who share your views. It's a sad world we leave in when people actually buy the defense that he's a harmless Peter Pan figure who would never touch a child in spite of all the evidence that makes him look shady as hell to put it mildly. Like I said, if he wasn't a celebrity he wouldn't be given the same benefit of the doubt by society. Heck No one would have let their children sleep with him in the first place. That's what money buys you.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Corey Feldman dresses like the King of Pop at Michael Jackson memorial
It wouldn’t be unusual to see an avid Michael Jackson fan dressed up as the King of Pop at the late singer’s memorial. Unless that fan is Corey Feldman.
The iconic 80s actor made quite the entrance as he arrived to the late pop singer’s memorial at the Staples Center in Los Angeles on Tuesday morning.
Wearing a replica of Jackson’s famous military jacket, sunglasses and a black fedora, Feldman, 37, drew puzzled looks, including one from John Mayer, as he used a Kleenex to wipe away his tears, Usmagazine.com reports.
Jackson’s public memorial appears to have hit a soft spot in Feldman, who befriended MJ during the height of both of their career in the 80s.
The unlikely friendship between the two men began during Feldman’s teen years, but they eventually drifted apart.
"I am filled with tremendous sadness and remorse," Feldman wrote on his Web site after Jackson's June 25 death. "All I choose to remember from this point is the good times we shared and what an inspiration he was to me and the rest of the world. Nobody will ever be able to do what Michael Jackson has done in this industry, and he was so close to doing it all again."
Although Feldman did not keep in touch with the singer before his untimely death, the actor remains friendly with the rest of the Jackson family today.
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
Corey Feldman dresses like the King of Pop at Michael Jackson memorial
It wouldn’t be unusual to see an avid Michael Jackson fan dressed up as the King of Pop at the late singer’s memorial. Unless that fan is Corey Feldman.
The iconic 80s actor made quite the entrance as he arrived to the late pop singer’s memorial at the Staples Center in Los Angeles on Tuesday morning.
Wearing a replica of Jackson’s famous military jacket, sunglasses and a black fedora, Feldman, 37, drew puzzled looks, including one from John Mayer, as he used a Kleenex to wipe away his tears, Usmagazine.com reports.
Jackson’s public memorial appears to have hit a soft spot in Feldman, who befriended MJ during the height of both of their career in the 80s.
The unlikely friendship between the two men began during Feldman’s teen years, but they eventually drifted apart.
"I am filled with tremendous sadness and remorse," Feldman wrote on his Web site after Jackson's June 25 death. "All I choose to remember from this point is the good times we shared and what an inspiration he was to me and the rest of the world. Nobody will ever be able to do what Michael Jackson has done in this industry, and he was so close to doing it all again."
Although Feldman did not keep in touch with the singer before his untimely death, the actor remains friendly with the rest of the Jackson family today.
that journalist should do a bit more research....that was also his get-up in the 1989 movie dream a little dream
Re: Michael Jackson's This Is It Discussion
So for those who watched, how was the funeral?
It was very touching. It seemed real, kind of thrown together, which gave it authenticity. Too much production, and it would've came across as scripted.
It started about 40 minutes late. The other Jackson brothers all dressed with gloves on one hand to honor Michael. Michael's kids were all in attendence, as was the entire Jackson family.
It was very emotional. Stevie Wonder broke up a bit during his performance, as did Usher, fighting back tears. Jermaine Jackson gave a terrific performance of Smile, where he started tearing up and struggling at the end, but he finished strong. Many of the artists performing in tribute gave touching performances, as did the 'to never be' backing band for This Is It, who performed We Are The World & Heal The World in honor of Michael.
Montages were played in between, very well done, and Brooke Shields and Magic Johnson both told loving, and funny stories about Michael, including a quite funny one from Magic where he was hanging with Michael, and Michael told him to tell his personal chef what he wanted to eat, and Magic told the chef he wanted some "grilled chicken". The chef comes back with Magic's grilled chicken plate, and a bucket of KFC for Michael. Magic was stunned, that this personal chef just prepared Magic's meal, but Michael was eating a bucket of KFC, and how that moment always stayed with him as they shared the chicken.
The most touching moment imo of the memorial was at the end where Marlon Jackson spoke of his brother and broke down, and then to everyone's shock, Paris, Michael's daughter took to the mic to say a few words, to let everyone know "since she was born, her daddy loved her very much. He was the best daddy in the world" or something to that effect, and then she burst into tears, and was consoled by Janet.
It was a very touching service.
