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Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
Not just losing fans, James, but opportunity as well. The 06 line up would have never been as big as the 02 would have been, but they had a chance to be pretty damn successful. But it was all fucked up. And that responsibility falls on one person, imo
Granted, I know I don't know everything that was involved with the band. And I'm sure the label did give them a hard time. And I'm sure RTB might have hurt the band, too. But it still falls on Axl's shoulders. From what we know the label supported Axl with money up to 2004. They tried to find him a producer. And despite what Axl said, he did have a great producer in Sean Beaven, who for still unexplained reasons was let go or walked away. Bob Ezrin was there for a time. We also know the album was in various stages of completion from 99 to 04. And all that was accomplished between 04-08 was Axl losing 2 of the most important members of the band in Robin and Buckethead, destroying their cred in the public eye even more by another aborted tour and lame cancelations, horrible interractions with the fanbase and the ridiculous continuation of tinkering of songs that only accomplished in creating bad cut and paste jobs and adding an outside guitarist to turn a potentially great album to just a good album. That sums up what the Axl waiting period has achieved.
The only bright spot in this whole mess was "If The World."
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
And all that was accomplished between 04-08 was Axl losing 2 of the most important members of the band in Robin and Buckethead, destroying their cred in the public eye even more by another aborted tour and lame cancelations, horrible interractions with the fanbase and the ridiculous continuation of tinkering of songs that only accomplished in creating bad cut and paste jobs and adding an outside guitarist to turn a potentially great album to just a good album.
Not to sound like a nutswinger, but I'm not sure that's entirely fair.
The 2006 tour was pretty sucessful overall, I think there was the odd cancellation but there was also a lot of dates played sucessfully. Not a bad average considering its GNR. And 2007 saw a sucessful tour of australia which pleased me 
I'm just saying I think your making it out like it ended the same way as the 2002 tour but that's not what happened.
This may be even more controversial, but I think i'm the only guy on this board who actually likes bumble. I thought the parts he added to CD and IRS really improved the flavour of those tracks. I'll admit at first I missed bucket's solo on rhiad...but I think a lot of that was that I was familiar with it from overexposure in leaks, as now that i'm used to hearing it, it no longer sounds 'wrong' to me and I look forward to the crazy melody of the new solo.
I would agree if all buckets parts were gone. But to me the signature bucket parts remain - the kickass CD solo, that amazing shred in IRS and the manic rhiad outro...the epic twat...its not like we lost those parts.
I can understand why some people are pissy about the Brian May thing. I'm on the fence on that one. On one hand the leak was kickass and sounded like a stripped down GNR reminicnt of the old GNR which was pretty awesome. At the same time stylisticly it was so different from the rest of the album that I can see the benifit of the new additions. I'm prob the only dude but I really like it at 2:23 - as its kinda the melody from the old version but with some cool shreddy stuff....
Anyway...each to their own...I'm just saying...I like Bumble and I like how with Bumble and Bucket on the same tracks they've become pretty awesome.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
The truth is though, this band has not finished a tour since 1993. This new line up has NEVER finished a full tour.... And I agree, the 2006 tour was successful and better executed than 02, but they still didn't finish it and that's what looks bad on them.
There are a bunch of people here who like Bumble, too. You're not the only one, so don't feel you're alone 
And while Bumble is a great guy, I don't see his contributions being that great to warrant a 4 year wait to tinker and finish up the album.
This is my opinion of course, but he ruined CD. He ruined The Blues. He's distracting on Prostitute. His solo was not that great to replace Bucket on Rhiad. There is so much going on with IRS because of him that he overpowers the song and you can barely make out some of the cool organ and keyboard parts, especially in the beginning... But that's not his fault, that's Axl's. I do like what he did for "If The World" and TWAT but his parts aren't that important to the album and there's nothing on there that makes me say, "Wow, now I see what Axl was waiting for all these years. Its exactly what the songs were missing!!"
I would kill to hear what Shackler's sounded like with just Buckethead.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
I agree that the album suffered to an extent because of the 2006-07 additions, but some of his contributions are good and what really kills the record is its production/mixing.
I can see why the Better demo charted high at a few key stations in early 2006. It was a raw and aggressive pop tune. Yet in 2008 no one gave a shit. It was painful to listen to. In other words, fans who liked the song in 2006 enough to request it wouldn't put in the same effort with the actual released track when its charting would have been even more important.
The demos will always be an albatross that hang around this album's legacy.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
IMO CD was gonna be a mess production wise regardless...with or without Ron's parts
His parts were awkwardly placed over already existing tracks. Even people who don't know anything about these guys can tell where shit was added. Its a horrific mix. I don't listen to the radio, but I understand why those singles tanked.
Hell, I feel uncomfortable listening to CITR. A song that was a potential hit in the 99-02 period will be noise pollution on the radio in 2009.
They could rerelease that original Better demo as a single and I guarantee that it charts higher than the initial single release simply because its a more pleasurable listening experience.
Like ID said, they raped I.R.S. Tommy's killer bass tone and Pitman's Zeppelin influence are drowned out so Ron can noodle throughout the song.
I love Ron's additions to the title track. However, it has issues as well, and I can see why Zutuat claims the 2001 album was much better. Less is more. I'm listening to the demo of the title track right now, and I can see why he preferred that approach and it more than likely would have charted higher than the album version did in 2008. Its less abrasive.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
i'm on the fence with ron. i like his work on shacklers and hate his work on riad. everything else is of no consequence to me.
i agree with neemo that he certainly didn't ruin the album whether you like him or not. it was going to be a very busy album either way.
it was axl's music before ron was around. axl chose to keep the tracks and i have a hard time blaming him for wanting his lead guitarist to be involved with chinese democracy.
that's why i keep saying how important it is right now for axl to finalize and maintain a lineup from here on out if he wants to have any future success.
Re: The Possibility of a Guns N' Roses '09 Summer tour
Personally i still think that the only reason that we hear the layers is cuz we've heard several variations on the same tracks over the past few years
there is nothing Zeppelin-esque in Pitman's stuff IMHO
IRS was never a bass heavy song
The catcher Demo we had was pretty shoddy, the sound on it was so atrocious that i couldnt even listen to it, i'm sure a few of you remember my rants on how that demo sounded, it was unlistenable for me...also i've never been much of a Queen fan so having May stripped of that song didnt bother me all that much...in fact where i hated t he track before it has become one of my fav's on the album because of Ron's playing..additonally its one of the most "stripped down" songs on the album i think it only has like 5 or 6 people playing on it
as for better, i think the reason it didnt chart so well was that peopel had already been there and done that from when it did leak..again the song sounds better with more guitars IMHO
dont get me started on Riad, the bucket solo that is gone wasnt that shit hot...tbh the bumble one isnt either....
its funny that nobody has complaints from the songs that we didnt hear prior to the release other than wanting to hear the Bucket version of SR
again the levels of the mix has nothing to do with the musicians...that is due to a poor job during the mixing stage
my rant of the day 
