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Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Olorin wrote:I dont why, because I do love agressive music, but I prefer the more reflective songs like Madagascar and Prostitute on CD.
I think he just sounds whiny on Sorry.
And that right there shows why CD is the definitive mixed bag of an album.
Now we've got a Madagascar guy, who doesn't like Sorry.
I'm telling you the combinations of preferences vs. non-preferences on this album is infinite.
So many different people like so many different combo of songs, diehards and casuals alike, it's virtually impossible to pinpoint down where the album stands strong, with a widespread agreement.
Like with AFD, just about everyone could agree, diehards and casuals, that they all really liked Jungle, City & Sweet Child.
CD has some amazing songs, but what I find amazing, might totally differ to the next person. Nobody can find a general consensus with this album.
.
I dont know if thats good or bad, some people tell you its amazing that there is such diverse views on the songs. But from a commercial point of view I think its a disaster, you need at least one song that can carry the album to the masses, if you want large sales that is. If you dont care, fine, its all good.
I always thought Live And Let Die and Heavens Door were included in the Illusions as a simple way of guaranteeing each album would have a song that would be appeal to the casual music fan.
The genuine creatively inspired big guns on those albums were not an automatic key to commercial success.
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Arcade Roses wrote:Bono wrote:I said from day one Sorry should've been a single. For the most part that opinion got laughed at while others pushed for that cheese SOD.
About which no one - NA or the rest of the world - seems to have heard anything about since that supposed artwork leaked. It hasn't even been discussed on the forums.
Anyone still wanna doubt this comeback was a failure?
The only saving grace for them now is the 'AFD effect' or new interest being gained and garnered in the possible tour/s next year. But this album faced an uphill struggle even before the 'promotion-less' CD was released - due to a music industry crippled by illegal downloading (*ahem*), credit crunch, and various factors. Cultural change - the decline of MTV, for instance, is another moot point. And, of course, according to Axl, the record company's own unwillingness to promote and push a project that has put the out of pocket to the tune of some $13 million.
It beggars belief, really. I'm just so sorry for the fans: and all who put their effort and faith into this project, well, some since 1993.
AR
AR makes great points. I've been saying this since the lackluster release back in November... what market?
What market is going to keep on board for this new GN'R other than us? How many promoters are going to sign off on half-full arenas, for the AFD-retrospective tour, how many times? It's been done twice, and although successful outside of the U.S., in GNR's home country it's been a lukewarm reception.
Who do they play these songs for? The casuals who buy the tix and don't want to hear CD songs? Those people?
Or do they start fresh, with a new lineup, and a new album, and try again?
Million dollar question...
my answer/question to this is...how do you explain U2's new album and tour then? NLOTH passed CD in sales in a week and the money is much tighter now than it was in November
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
There was nothing that I can recall reading between 1990-1995 that painted Gn'R as uncool other than stupid comments from Kurt Coabin sayng the bloated rockstar image was stupid. People who bought into that were sheep. U2 was as cool as ever in 1992-1993 and they were more over the top and bloated than anyone. The Gn'R thing being uncool is fabricated bullshit that has somehow crept into media over the years by journalists who are lazy and who are trying to glorify the grunge scene and Kurt Cobain. It adds to his legend if they can print BS like "Nirvana was the demise of big 80's bands like Guns n' Roses"
the only 2 things that hurt GnR's rep were
1. The release of TSI....it was/is a peice of shit and nobody was interested in it when it was released, they needed to come back strong immediately with new orig material...which obiviously never did happen
2. The feud on MTV with Nirvana....you dont fuck with the music worlds current golden boy
in the mid 90's there was all kinds of awesome music...peopel just put gnr in the back of their minds and rode the wave of grunge...when the press release about Slash's departure was released in '95 it was all over...in '99 OMG had some huge lead-up and hype...but people were not impressed at all when the track was released...you could call that strike 3 i suppose
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
People forget how dramatically the rock scene shifted in 92, and it wasn't just Grunge: The Beastie Boys got huge. Red Hot Chili Peppers got huge. NIN got huge. Smashing Pumpkins were getting huge. Weezer was on the cusp of getting huge. Marilyn Manson was about to explode. And U2 got huge...er.
Tool, Korn, Blind Melon,
and lets not forget the Rap EXPLOSION with Dre and Snoop and Tupac and everyone else
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Well I'm 31 and James what you just said could not be further from the truth here in Alberta, Canada. More and more I'm so glad I live where I live as far as popular music goes. Rock music never died here. Gn'R never died or became uncool. NEVER. It just didn't happen here thank god.
Canada has always been a hot spot for Rock music ... funny re sponed to Page 6 and then on page 7 everyone is talking about what i jsut posted 
chalk me up into the same age group as James and Bono
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
my answer/question to this is...how do you explain U2's new album and tour then? NLOTH passed CD in sales in a week and the money is much tighter now than it was in November
I'll answer that question....
U2 doesn't live in the past. They give their fans what they want(new music), and they concentrate on that new music. All aspects of their promotion revolves around the new album, and the hardcore and casual fans love that stuff. They get rewarded by people buying the album or downloading it. Their tour will be comprised of mostly sellouts, and the set list will not shy away from No Line on the Horizon.
regardless of whether or not GNR fans like U2, they know how to promote their album.
Never understood why some GNR fans think everything needs to revolve around the old band and they always defend an AFD heavy set list, then they are surprised at lackluster album sales and half filled venues. Its like marketing a new band on the nostalgia circuit. Which is it?
Gonna have to decide which direction they want to go on this next tour. While we're obviously not gonna hear CD in its entirety, hopefully we get a CD heavy set list because I don't give two shits about twenty years ago. If Axl and his hardcores want nostalgia, I hope its immediately marketed as such so I know to avoid it.
Hopefully he goes the U2 and MIA route. Concentrate on the here and now.
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
TheMole wrote:AtariLegend wrote:Because some people would rather complain, than make a meaningful contribution to a thread.
Wait a minute here.
95% of my post was about how I feel they missed their chance at making a successful comeback.
No... 95% of your post was "I can say honestly I'm not really into most of the album".
Really? Except for the final remark, the final sentence in the post, name one thing that expresses my personal feelings towards CD? Come on man, I know the remark must have stuck out at you like a sore thumb, but this defensiveness towards the album is growing really old, really fast. I honestly don't even think my remark could be considered a complaint, so you're so far off base it's not even funny any more...
Sorry for harping on about this, but it really ticks me off when I get thrown onto the same pile as the endless heap of trolls and haters.
dont let it get to you
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
Sorry for harping on about this, but it really ticks me off when I get thrown onto the same pile as the endless heap of trolls and haters.
I wonder why...
"I can say honestly I'm not really into most of the album".
I don't think I really need CD part 2.
they can't salvage CD my guess is they blew it.
Really? Except for the final remark, the final sentence in the post, name one thing that expresses my personal feelings towards CD?
Big contradiction their, I say.
this defensiveness towards the album is growing really old, really fast. .
I'm sorry, but some people on Guns N' Roses forums just happen to like the album and want it to succeed. I just happen to be one of them.
Re: 'Chinese Democracy' Officially Drops out of the Billboard Top 200
James Lofton wrote:madagas wrote:yada yada yada....the original Gnr has always been cool, in some form or fashion. While grunge was cool from 92-97, Gnr was lighting up the cash registers with sales. From a strictly business standpoint, no rock band outside of U2 or Metallica could come close to selling as many records during the 90's as Gnr.....Soundgarden, Nirvana, and AIC weren't in the same league, not in the US and definitely not Internationally.
Record sales aren't everything(like you've mentioned in other threads), and even if they are, here's a pop quiz....
Which of these albums sold less in 1993-95?
Superunknown
In Utero
The Spaghetti Incident
Smash
Jar of FliesYou get a karma point if you get the correct answer.
TSI is irrelvant. It was a throw away album ment to tide fans over. Gn'R were not trying to break any ground or make a musical statement with this album. People knew what the album was, it was never promoted with a proper single. Since I Don't Have You? C'mon. Had Gn'R put out a true Gn'R album in 1996 I think it would've been a real big success.
Smashing Pumpkins Pisces Iscariot didn't sell well either. Why? cause it was a b-side album. Nobody bases the interest in Smashing Pumpkins on that album. They follwoed it up with a hugel;y successful real album. TSI was a cover album with a bunch of song most people had never even heard of so..... I dont' see how TSI holds any water in thsi discussion.
It's completely unfair to use TSI as a gage of people's interest in Gn'R at that time..
And I get Smash is the Offspring album not Smashing Pumpkins
James, I am with Bono again on this one ....TSI was not a new studio LP, completely irrelevant to the discussion. Of course, Gnr was uncoolin SOME circles, but the entire musical Universe simply does not revolve around American pop culture. The grunge bands were never big overseas. In the end, the original bands legacy survived and is much stronger than the legacy left by any of the grunge movement, both critically and commercially. I liken Gnr in the 90's to Led Zep, The Stones, Floyd in the 70's. Punk came along and suddenly all these dinosaur bands were way uncool for two to three years. Well, whose cool now? Who survived and prospered over the long haul? Gnr still had a huge fanbase all through the grunge era and sold more concert tickets and records than any other group outside of U2 and Metallica. Sales aren't everything, you are right. But, they do indicate that someone still cared.:peace:
