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Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
i love cd too
grew sick of some of the leaked/toured songs like irs, madagascar, blues, chinese democracy, and better before the album came out.
never would have listened to them so much had i known that they were mostly it.
don't agree with the tracklist choices but appreciate the quality never the less
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
I never expected a lackluster song like Rhiad on their comeback album. The Blues as well. Makes u wonder just what kind of songs they can choose from.
By summer 2009 we will know what direction this will take. If it's left for good or continued to be worked on and pushed.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Axlin08 wrote:Olorin wrote:Just as well they released this sucka cheaply, and at the busiest shopping period of the year, or else it would have sunk without so much as a ripple!
Some people are saying that sales dont matter, criticism doesnt matter - this album will be remembered in 20 years. I'm sure it will, but its entirely possible it wont be for the reasons they are imagining.
Its about high time one of Axls servants started ringing the alarm bell:
"Iceberg dead ahead!!!"
This album will be remembered in 20 years, but it will be remembered for all the wrong reasons, just like Brian Wilson's Smile. It'll be remembered for being a clusterfuck, a money pit, and not living up to the hype.
Most just aren't going to give this album open mind, and a decent shot. It's the Halloween III of the GN'R catalog.
Brain Wilson's Smile will be remembered as a good record. I heard no complaints about that record. I remember it getting good reviews. It was nominated for awards and won a grammy.
You heard no complaints about it, because Brian Wilson is a far bigger legend and far more likeable than Axl. The Beach Boys also transcend far more audiences than Axl or GN'R ever could dream of.
axlin08: please bring back previous avatar.
Hahaha, i'll take care of it.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Most just aren't going to give this album open mind, and a decent shot.
This is seriously a dellusion that alot of Gn'R fans are suffering from right now. Yes there are alot who don't give a shit because of who's in the band. Or better yet who's not in the band but there are a shit load of people who will and have given this album a fair shot. Alot of people just won't and don't like the album. Think about it. Who's gonna like this? Indie music fans? no cause it sounds way too over produced. It sounds lieka "sellout" album. It lacks that indie flavour(if there's even such a thing). Classic rock fans? For the most part no. It's too industrial and it's a clusterfuck at times with no classic feel to it. There's no staright out rock flavour to it. Industrial fans? Again for the most part not really cause it's just not an industrial type album. It's a poor man's NIN in some cases. Pop music fans? No way. It's too messy with a complete lack of catchy melodies. So who's that leave us with? Gn'R/Axl fans. Really think about this guys. If Axl's vocals weren't on these songs would you like them? Seriously? Better is catchy but it's Axl's voice that makes it. This I Love is pretty average piano ballad but Axl's voice makes it. I'm just saying there isn't much here for the average music fan. The album has been given a fair shot by alot of people. And this album has had more than it's fair share of promo. It had the hype, it had the reputation, it had a song on radio, It'd had more tv adds than any album I've ever seen, it's been talked about for years. The only thing missing is Axl talking about it. Sure that'd garner a bit more interest but not nearly enough to save this sinking ship.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
i agree to an extent and you make a couple good points
but the band/axl part of the promo (interviews and appearances)may be the most important part. a lot of people saying the music sucks are also basing it on one mediocre single (chinese democracy)that sounds about as far from the gnr they know as any other song on the album.
gnr became a joke before this album was released, you can't deny that people wrote this off before hearing it.
- FlashFlood
- Rep: 55
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
i hate the whole "clutter" argument. just because there are multiple things going on in a song doesnt make it "cluttered." take a band like coldplay who synth the shit out of songs then have ten other things going on. seriously. go listen to viva la vida. please tell me people complained about that album being cluttered.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
i agree to an extent but the band/axl part of the promo (interviews and appearances)may be the most important part. a lot of people saying the music sucks are also basing it on one mediocre single (chinese democracy)that sounds about as far from the gnr they know as any other song on the album. a lot of your other points are true.
gnr became a joke before this album was released, you can't deny that people wrote this off before hearing it.
True. A cover story in Rolling Stone can't hurt. Axl has basically fucked his own album in the ass. Yeah alot of people are basing it off Chinese Democracy but that's the bed they made. I honestly don't see anything else on the album other than Better that would've made a much better first impression. I think CD actually gets a decent response compared to alot of the songs . Nobody really cringes with CD. I can't say that for most songs on the album. At least when it comes to people I know.
I agree alot of people have written this off without even hearing it but alot have also heard it and don't like it. There seems to be an unwillingness to aknowledge that part. You get the sense that alot of people feel the album has been burried by poor promo and predetermined judgements. That's only part of the truth. I think a bigger problem is that the album appeals to no one in paticular. Something for everyone but not alot for anyone. I just hope people don't fool themselves into creating this myth about CD and how it failed for every reason under the sun besides the music. Let's face it regardless of what anyone wants to think, when a band has instant recognition and selling power the way Gn'R does, the "other reasons" only go so far. At some point, some fingers have to be pointed at the music.
I forgot to mention that Country music fans won't like this album either. 
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Axlin08 wrote:Most just aren't going to give this album open mind, and a decent shot.
This is seriously a dellusion that alot of Gn'R fans are suffering from right now. Yes there are alot who don't give a shit because of who's in the band. Or better yet who's not in the band but there are a shit load of people who will and have given this album a fair shot. Alot of people just won't and don't like the album. Think about it. Who's gonna like this? Indie music fans? no cause it sounds way too over produced. It sounds lieka "sellout" album. It lacks that indie flavour(if there's even such a thing). Classic rock fans? For the most part no. It's too industrial and it's a clusterfuck at times with no classic feel to it. There's no staright out rock flavour to it. Industrial fans? Again for the most part not really cause it's just not an industrial type album. It's a poor man's NIN in some cases. Pop music fans? No way. It's too messy with a complete lack of catchy melodies. So who's that leave us with? Gn'R/Axl fans. Really think about this guys. If Axl's vocals weren't on these songs would you like them? Seriously? Better is catchy but it's Axl's voice that makes it. This I Love is pretty average piano ballad but Axl's voice makes it. I'm just saying there isn't much here for the average music fan. The album has been given a fair shot by alot of people. And this album has had more than it's fair share of promo. It had the hype, it had the reputation, it had a song on radio, It'd had more tv adds than any album I've ever seen, it's been talked about for years. The only thing missing is Axl talking about it. Sure that'd garner a bit more interest but not nearly enough to save this sinking ship.
You make valid points, and actually make more points to back up what I said, rather than disprove it.
I've said many times before that this was an album for the fans, and no one else. Because it's a child, only the family could love. Axl being the mother, the fans being the siblings.
This isn't Appetite, the hot sleazy rock chick with nice legs, or the Illusions, the gorgeous blonde hair blue-eyed firecracker. CD is the ugly chick with a heart of gold.
I made the Halloween III reference, because that's a great film, and a great sequel, but people have hated it for years because it didn't have Michael Myers, and to a lesser extent, Dr. Loomis. It was a total fresh start, under the same brand name, and alot of people shit it on right out of the gate, without giving it a fair shot. 20 years later, it has it's own cult following, and is one of the more respected sequels in the "Halloween" franchise. But it took two decades to get there.
I think CD will suffer the same fate. Casual fans hate this album. Period. No if's, and's, or but's about it. They hate it, and always will. But the difference with CD, is there is mixed reactions within the actual fanbase. The fanbase, as a whole, will truely respect this album down the road, but it's gonna be a LONG way down the road, and certaintly not quick enough to rebound it and it's perception in, well at least, the American market. The world seems to love it.
So, I pretty much agree with you. But just because something can't find it's fanbase, or something has mixed reactions with A fanbase, doesn't mean it's not good, or not strong. It just hasn't been fully appreciated yet. Even TSI eventually found it's audience in the fanbase. CD will have no problem here.
As for Axl's vocals... yes I would like the album without him. In fact, some songs he hold back, and is the weaker link because of the vocals. Street of Dreams, Scraped, Riad & IRS immediately spring to mind, that Axl is the weak link. Instrumentally the songs are ace, and the vocals pull it back. I've been the guy saying for quite a while, that I would've preferred Riad had no vocals at all, and just been an instrumental track in the middle of the album, like a band solo.
But because I believe what I believe about this albums fate in the next couple of decades, I do not think makes me delusional. I think in fact it makes my eyesight pretty 20/20 on what CD's legacy will be. If people, GN'R fans, happen to hate it that bad, look on the bright side.... maybe the old band might rework it one day, and release it as a remaster.
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
It don't really matter, your all gonna find out for yourselves. I think the writing is on the wall--Axl moved on from this project--mentally, physically, and emotionally back in September when this was turned in. He is onto the next chapter, and is likely putting every bit of energy into this. Don't forget, this guy is ambitious--he is not going to go down not swinging the bat again--once one almost reachs the summit, every waking moment is going to be spent trying to get to the top. GNR almost made it there in 1990-91, they want to go down as the greatest, and they are still relatively young enough to do that.
To me, Chinese Democracy was a necessary step. Axl and co. learned much, much about new production techniques, what works, what doesn't. At the end of the day, this will teach the band valuable lessons which will make them better in the long run.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Axlin08 wrote:Most just aren't going to give this album open mind, and a decent shot.
This is seriously a dellusion that alot of Gn'R fans are suffering from right now. Yes there are alot who don't give a shit because of who's in the band. Or better yet who's not in the band but there are a shit load of people who will and have given this album a fair shot. Alot of people just won't and don't like the album. Think about it. Who's gonna like this? Indie music fans? no cause it sounds way too over produced. It sounds lieka "sellout" album. It lacks that indie flavour(if there's even such a thing). Classic rock fans? For the most part no. It's too industrial and it's a clusterfuck at times with no classic feel to it. There's no staright out rock flavour to it. Industrial fans? Again for the most part not really cause it's just not an industrial type album. It's a poor man's NIN in some cases. Pop music fans? No way. It's too messy with a complete lack of catchy melodies. So who's that leave us with? Gn'R/Axl fans. Really think about this guys. If Axl's vocals weren't on these songs would you like them? Seriously? Better is catchy but it's Axl's voice that makes it. This I Love is pretty average piano ballad but Axl's voice makes it. I'm just saying there isn't much here for the average music fan. The album has been given a fair shot by alot of people. And this album has had more than it's fair share of promo. It had the hype, it had the reputation, it had a song on radio, It'd had more tv adds than any album I've ever seen, it's been talked about for years. The only thing missing is Axl talking about it. Sure that'd garner a bit more interest but not nearly enough to save this sinking ship.
Wow, you sure speak for a lot of people. Some fans may be 'delusional' but others just want Axl to fail. But as to your greater point, relatively speaking, you seem to place music fans in far too many individual categories. A great many people enjoy many genres of music and can appreciate within the context of a single work, the variety of texture. In addition, when it comes to historically well known bands, music fans have ability to set aside trendy daliances and enjoy the classical sound as well as variations from that formula. Music is very subjective and critics run into trouble when they attempt to lump large groups of people into very limited categories.
The lack of any press from the band, any performance by the band, a substandard promotion from Best Buy, lack of a video for any song, and a lackluster radio push for Better from UMG has hurt this record badly. For an album and band of this magnitude, the promotional push has been quite halfhearted.
But UMG made back their $14 million on the deal and really have no need to pump any cash into the States. They will make money overseas and probably jettison GnR afterwards.
