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Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
James, I love your Devil's Advocate take, but I reiterate, once the FBI was involved, this was out of GN'R's hands. Moreover, trying to claim this material is not copyrighted is blatantly false
I never claimed it wasn't copyrighted. Just said we have no proof of the copyright in question. This will have to be proven in court just to make a case. I have several copyrights on unreleased shit. Can you prove it?:haha:
They also have to prove the infringement on the copyright.
James, the facts are Axl did not arrest the guy nor did he hire the FBI investigator to pursue the "COPYRIGHT" infringement. The RIAA did....those are the only facts available. You are the one assuming you know copyright law more than the RIAA, FBI, and Federal prosecutors. The Feds don't arrest you unless they pretty much have you nailed.
You're assuming I claimed Axl arrested the guy, hired the FBI, and that I know more about copyright than Federal prosecutors.
If you don't think the Feds botch cases, I have a few bridges to sell you.
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
Acquiesce wrote:That being said I am definitely not behind this prosecution and I find it laughable that there are fans out there calling him a criminal when no doubt they enjoyed the leaks he brought to them.
As a fan of the band and the music, and when it seemed no album was comming out for years on end, I too was happy to hear new songs that I had never heard before. But why should my excitment at that mean I think that the person who distributed them acted within the law? In terms of the law he did the wrong thing. For us fans who wanted the songs, he did what we wanted. One thing has nothing to do with the other to me. Like Robin Hood gave money to the poor - but he still stole it!
sic. wrote:joins them in their incredibly naive and misguided attitude towards the digital realm and the consumers who reside within.
I have a ton of respect for you sic as one of the most awesome posters out there. So i don't want this to sound like an attack on you...but I actually think it isn't the record companies who are naive on this issue...it's the digital p2p and online comunities you refer to who are naive.
Sure, tehcnology is going to make it easy to do this stuff, and hard to catch people. But in the physical non-digital world, copyright is a legal right that is enforced, and people like the FBI don't see it as old fashioned or going away just because we have computers now.
Technology makes it possible for people to steal money from banks from their own homes. Are the police naive to investigate this as the crime of theft just because it didn't happen with a shotgun at a brick-and-morter bank? Likewise copyright violation is an offence if you do it digitally, or if you go in with some old school hardware and steal the songs in person.
There are broader socological issues at hand - that ask questions about why information and sound should be capiable of being copyrighted - which is what I think is at the heart and soul in the minds of those who refer to copyright as outdated, replaced by the internet and so on...who feel they have the right to stuff because its now possible to do it easily...but that's an issue for your legislators then...take it up in politics if you feel the laws are outdated and no longer appropriate.....but don't call the cops nieve...as the status quo is that what many people do is illegal...and just becasue it seems natural to internet junkies like the people on here....doesn't mean the real world police will see it that way - from their point of view - laws have been broken.
Ace analysis!
The way this was publicized by Skwerl and Anti-quiet, gave the record industry and authorities no other option than to prosecute.
I also think, in light of the law being broken, if he would not have mentioned "Universal" so prominently in the subsequent interviews after the leak, they would have taken this more lightly. Universal has a reputation to maintain with their clients, and being known as a company that hires "leakers" into their Distribution department does not fly well when negotiating contracts. Also, leaking nine, not one, songs from a huge upcoming release with much on the line, and publicizing it so openly was basically asking for this. Maybe this guy has some mad intention to become a cult hero?
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
monkey,
I was primarily referring to the use of digital networks as sound tools for distribution. The record companies bid their time to end and it tooks groups like Radiohead and NIN to introduce new methods of distribution. I understand and acknowledge the copyright of intellectual property, but the fact is, the labels are waging what could be characterized as 'war on terror', facing an unknown enemy that may lurk wherever in the crowd.
One of the main issues is that downloading an album from the Internet cannot be directly compared to stealing one from the local music store. If an album would be stored digitally in the stores laptop, and I'd go in, make a copy and then proceed to delete the original, I'd be stealing the digital album in the common sense of the word. I'd be taking something away from someone else. That's obviously wrong and most people can relate to it.
However, nowadays I can copy without permission, which, as an action, is more akin towards copying a class mates homework. He'll have them still, but I'm getting the identical copies of works I shouldn't be privileged to. The biggest worry is if/when I have to present them in front of class. That's when I could get 'skwerl'd', which would lead to me getting detention. However, the chances of that relatively slim, much less than the clerk catching up on my act in stealing the album at the store.
I argue this distinction in conception creates the moral gray area in between physical album copies and digital downloads. While legislation applies in both cases, obviously the latter are easier to go with. The music industry has spent years trying to maintain status quo of the times before mp3, p2p, et al, on the pretext of the intellectual property copyright. While this is all fine and good, but they're fighting the war with all too wrong ways.
When the cat's out of the bag, it'll spread like wildfire depending on popular interest. The best form of damage control is to create the official alternative, which's the most reliable and visible option. It'll overshadow the rest as the common surfer tends to go to the band's own website to check out the latest on them. That's where they nowadays expect to find new music.
I appreciate the fact that in GNR's case, there may be various legal entanglements involved that prevent them from putting new music on, say, their MySpace music player. Even so, the music industry in general is waking up a bit too slowly to realize their former safeguards have been irreversibly breached. Physical copies of illegally obtained material are, to a degree, possible to track down and pull back, but once something gets thrown into the datastream, it'll pounce into the other side of the globe in a second.
The record companies created their own monster, and I have no doubt that when bundled up with the ongoing CD saga, the entire incident will make Skwerl look like a martyr for the cause, as he's taking on two major jokes at once - the never-released album and an entity behind the decaying business model. Whether Axl had a hand in the matter or not, it's not a good place for him to be at.
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10027657-1.html
The article above describes the copyright issue:
The Family Entertainment and Copyright Act of 2005 makes the sharing of pre-release copyright material a felony punishable by up to three years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. According to his arrest affidavit, Cogill admitted to posting the songs, reports the Los Angeles Times.
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
Youtube...
Myspace....
Facebook....
the radio industry....
Axl, get your housekeepers on the job. Several industries need to be brought to their knees over the streaming of ancient demos.
This case is gonna get laughed out of court.
- Spanish hoarder
- Rep: -3
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
this guy was stupid. there are so many ways to leak songs.
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
I understand in pricinapl why artists et al wish to protect their intellectual property and make a $$ out of it.
But seriously GNR need to choose their battles - this FBI stunt is just gay. I don't care if Universal or RIAA initiated it - if Axl wants it to be stopped - he and Azoff would be able to put enough pressure on for it to be dropped - or not even initiated to begin with.
The fact is that in this case what they are trying to protect by playing this game is actually being counterproductive. The opportunity cost of this stunt is more than the benefit they will gain. Regardless of who initiated the action GNR will be derided for this (refer to Metallica/Napster to see how the story ends). This will ultimately cost GNR sales/$$'s - if the album is released in a months time people that are going to download/steal it will do so, people that intend to pay for it will pay for it. But arresting this guy in his jim jams at 6:00 in the morning and dragging him out in a big spectacle in front of the neighbours etc (remember this guy had been fully compliant with the FBI prior to now) - well that action has just increased massively the number of people that will raise the middle finger to GNR and say "give me a link" when the album drops.
I thought the GNR name had been dragged thru the mud and become a running joke over the last 15 years - but this takes the cake. Good luck guys trying to get any credability back after this. Slash, Duff and co must be very glad for once not to be associated with this circus.
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
If GNR truly does not have any say in this then they NEED to make a statement explaining how they are not involved and wash their hands of this. When this spreads more, everyone will just assume that Axl/GNR are behind this and it's their fault.
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
Someone has to tell them its 2008. This shit isn't acceptable on any level.
Azoff needs to dump the housekeepers, gardeners, and janitors ASAP. They're making fools of themselves over at mygnr. All they do is harm what reputation the band has left. They don't have to leave Axl's life, but they need to be forced away from the situation because they are irrelevant to GNR and Chinese Democracy.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
This is fucking hilarious. As if GN'R did not already have a bad enough rep in the industry due to its lead singer who admits to his own status as being a grade A asshole, now they've managed to pull a Metallica and treat their most diehard fans like shit. Great stuff. James is right, the album is dead on arrival.
