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Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
Look at the hate we're breeding. Look at the fear we're feeding. Look at the lives we're leading.
Remember, we're supposed to be fans of a rock 'n' roll band. Sooner or later you come to that line that's only up to you whether or not you cross it. I see many have already made that choice. There was an understandable hunger by the fans to hear some of these new leaks, but just because you've been anxiously awaiting this album doesn't mean you're owed anything. It's a choice to buy tickets when the band tours. It's a choice to pick up live albums, greatest hits, or vinyl reissues. Nobody held a gun up to your heads and somehow conned you into it. Your disappointment that an album hasn't materialized yet doesn't give any of you the right to see how many bricks you can pull out from under the empire until it falls. If you're fans then be fans, if not then fuck off. Let them carry on with releasing this album and end all of this spiteful, hate filled, immature drama. Yes, I understand there are some in the GN'R camp who may egg it on, but look at it from their perspective.
EDIT: This post was not directed in any way against MSL specifically, but as a general response to the discussions in this thread and the general state of things as of right now.
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
but just because you've been anxiously awaiting this album doesn't mean you're owed anything.
I'd seriously like to know where that line of thinking originated. I've seen very few people over the years claim that they are "owed" the album.
Let them carry on with releasing this album and end all of this spiteful, hate filled, immature drama.
Thats what the band is all about now. I know you've been a fan long enough to realize that. Without internet drama, the current band is nothing.
but look at it from their perspective.
I have. They shit on the only people who still care about the saga. The fans in the half empty arenas are there to hear the hits, and some think Slash is still in the band since he is still used in GNR promotion. The online fanbase are the ones interested in the current band. Joe Public doesn't give two shits about Bumble, Fortus,etc.
GNR are the ones to blame for the current atmosphere amongst the fanbase. I cant comprehend how the blame can be shifted to the fans. There's no respect shown towards the hardcore fans.
That would be like after going to see MIA three times last year, Rye Rye emailing me saying I'm not a fan. Its just absurd on so many levels and cant be defended anymore.
I support the band itself in general and of course like the music, but they have went about this all wrong and are currently burning the last bridge standing...the bridge that leads to the only people that were almost guaranteed to buy the record.
When Azoff was brought aboard, I thought he would fix the things that need to be repaired. So far he hasn't, but at some point he is gonna realize that he needs the "forum junkies" on their side.
There's approximately twenty thousand people at these various sites. twenty thousand can make or break this album. Less than twenty thousand is usually the difference between numbers one and ten on the Billboard charts. Number one with average sales and the album is considered a success right off the bat. A debut at number 10 will cause the media to deem it a flop.
A connection with the fanbase needs to be reestablished, and telling fans they aren't fans isn't the way to do it. Hell, we have seen those sorts of statements on the official site. Is that how communication is supposed to be? If so, count me out. I don't need Del James bitching on the official site because we don't want to pretend that its 1987.
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
Look at the hate we're breeding. Look at the fear we're feeding. Look at the lives we're leading.
I know. GN'R fans should've seen the writing on the wall.
Remember, we're supposed to be fans of a rock 'n' roll band.
A non-existant one, beyond infrequent tours that only happen 4-5 years and unreleased material that leaks.
Sooner or later you come to that line that's only up to you whether or not you cross it.
I'd agree with that. But we crossed it because WE ARE fans, not because WE AREN'T.
I see many have already made that choice. There was an understandable hunger by the fans to hear some of these new leaks, but just because you've been anxiously awaiting this album doesn't mean you're owed anything.
I certaintly don't think i'm owed an album. But I am owed RESPECT. I've bought their albums, bought concert tix, and many memories. The business arrangement may be over, but it still doesn't mean as a fan, a long time fan, that i'm not owed some respect by the GN'R camp. Axl seems to only respect the beggers & hangers on that continue to tell him what he wants to hear.
It's a choice to buy tickets when the band tours. It's a choice to pick up live albums, greatest hits, or vinyl reissues. Nobody held a gun up to your heads and somehow conned you into it. Your disappointment that an album hasn't materialized yet doesn't give any of you the right to see how many bricks you can pull out from under the empire until it falls.
Why not? We helped build it, and kept it alive during the dark/down years. It's our empire to destroy.
Take that Axl.
If you're fans then be fans, if not then fuck off.
Being a fan and friend doesn't always mean smiles and agreeing with band decisions. Sometimes I constructively criticize them and try to give them, what I think, is good advice. It doesn't mean I don't love them. But they seem to take it personally and react as if it's a personal attack.
Let them carry on with releasing this album and end all of this spiteful, hate filled, immature drama.
Yes. That also applies to the man that ejects concert goers from shows for wearing Slash t-shirts, and at the age of 46 proudly proclaims himself to be 'King Dick'.
But yet we're immature.
Yes, I understand there are some in the GN'R camp who may egg it on, but look at it from their perspective.
EDIT: This post was not directed in any way against MSL specifically, but as a general response to the discussions in this thread and the general state of things as of right now.
That's the point. NO ONE from the GN'R camp should be egging it on. It's unprofessional. Fernando & Beta both should be fired, and Del & Baz contractually barred from speaking on the bands affairs.... just like the BAND members have.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
I see this whole thing as minda a mess.
Axl is obviously very sensitive...which makes sence given the sensitive nature of his lyrics and that he is clearly an artist.
There is an irony to things. I think Axl felt the need to get control of his affairs and take control of the old band due to the drug abuse and other issues, he knew he needed to be in charge to get things to be a way he could deal with. But now its comming back to bite him a little...as what GNR needs is an objective media and business types involved...who aren't personally and emotionally invested in their relationship with the fan base etc....and it doesn't seem like that's what we have.
I hope it all resolves. As at the end of the day Axl is a great artist and its a shame to let all the politics distract from that - for us and for him.
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
Look at the hate we're breeding. Look at the fear we're feeding. Look at the lives we're leading.
I know. GN'R fans should've seen the writing on the wall.
Remember, we're supposed to be fans of a rock 'n' roll band.
A non-existant one, beyond infrequent tours that only happen 4-5 years and unreleased material that leaks.
Sooner or later you come to that line that's only up to you whether or not you cross it.
I'd agree with that. But we crossed it because WE ARE fans, not because WE AREN'T.
I see many have already made that choice. There was an understandable hunger by the fans to hear some of these new leaks, but just because you've been anxiously awaiting this album doesn't mean you're owed anything.
I certaintly don't think i'm owed an album. But I am owed RESPECT. I've bought their albums, bought concert tix, and many memories. The business arrangement may be over, but it still doesn't mean as a fan, a long time fan, that i'm not owed some respect by the GN'R camp. Axl seems to only respect the beggers & hangers on that continue to tell him what he wants to hear.
It's a choice to buy tickets when the band tours. It's a choice to pick up live albums, greatest hits, or vinyl reissues. Nobody held a gun up to your heads and somehow conned you into it. Your disappointment that an album hasn't materialized yet doesn't give any of you the right to see how many bricks you can pull out from under the empire until it falls.
Why not? We helped build it, and kept it alive during the dark/down years. It's our empire to destroy.
Take that Axl.
If you're fans then be fans, if not then fuck off.
Being a fan and friend doesn't always mean smiles and agreeing with band decisions. Sometimes I constructively criticize them and try to give them, what I think, is good advice. It doesn't mean I don't love them. But they seem to take it personally and react as if it's a personal attack.
Let them carry on with releasing this album and end all of this spiteful, hate filled, immature drama.
Yes. That also applies to the man that ejects concert goers from shows for wearing Slash t-shirts, and at the age of 46 proudly proclaims himself to be 'King Dick'.
But yet we're immature.
Yes, I understand there are some in the GN'R camp who may egg it on, but look at it from their perspective.
EDIT: This post was not directed in any way against MSL specifically, but as a general response to the discussions in this thread and the general state of things as of right now.
That's the point. NO ONE from the GN'R camp should be egging it on. It's unprofessional. Fernando & Beta both should be fired, and Del & Baz contractually barred from speaking on the bands affairs.... just like the BAND members have.
You're my hero dude. 
A band is NOTHING without fans. If a band wants to constantly tell it's fans to fuck off, well what the hell do they think will happen? They're digging their own grave. It's getting disgusting now. I bet a lot of people won't hessitate to download Chinese Democracy and not even buy it in stores. Can't say i'd be surprised.
The fans have stuck through this band 'through all the fucking shit'. Wasn't that a quote from a GNR song before? Didn't they thank fans before? And now what? We're the fucking enemies? Get a clue people.
In a workplace, if someone in a high position acts horrible towards customers, constantly belitteling them and making them the enemy, that person is thumbing the want ads, correct? The same should be done here.
If the people working around GNR can be professional towards their 'customers', then they should be let go.
Sure, Axl is a sensitive person. That doesn't mean for one second that he has to attack the fans who kept his business alive. That doesn't mean he has to keep a bunch of 'yes men' around him.
God this story gets more fucked up as we go.
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
Yeah, good post Saikin. And the thing is i've never in my life to be one of those "we are owed", "we're the fans".
I actually hate that shit.
But Axl has dug his own grave at this point to me, even if it's from people 'by association'. AXL created this mystery shit. Not the fans. Axl. Axl created a sole atmosphere all on his own that he treats his fans no different than his bandmates. Strictly business. A music consumer brand name - Guns N' Roses.
And that's fine.
But it works both ways. No longer will I be the guy standing there making excuses for the guy while arguing with some Slashite that calls Axl "that asshole". I won't sit there acting like it doesn't bother me that he didn't show up 'til past midnight at a concert that had a 10pm start time for GN'R. I won't defend this band as 'GUNS N ROSES', because people just need to give the new band a chance.
Axl fucking Rose hasn't given the new band a chance. Not once.
And my attitude, my anger is not directed solely at the recent revelations by MSL. It's directed at a compounding of things, MSL's statement being the final straw. I've read with my own eyes countless times, quotes by Beta making smart ass comments directed towards the fans. "The album's finished. Everyone knows that." The 2nd part being an intentional knife twist in the back of fans. Del posted an absolute tirade on GNR.com - officially, no different than a press release - skewering GN'R fans for complaining about setlists. You should be happy you get what you get. NO dude. We pay for the tickets. Not you. Not Axl. WE do. The FANS. If enough fans band together and say "Axl we'd like for the band to re-introduced 'Estranged' back into the setlist". Axl responds, "no we're not doing that". Fans respond, "I don't remember it being a request Mr. Rose. It's an order".
I had the time of my life in 2006. But it was WAY before alot of this shit went down the way it did. The despicable way they threw Merck to the wolves, after he had defended them for years... even though he was indeed a lightweight with weak ideas.
I honestly don't think I will even get tickets if the new band ever tours again. I might think about it if Bucket returns, but I still doubt it'll happen. Reunion would probably be the only thing to get me to buy tix again.
Eventually you just reach a point, where you have to act as a consumer, as a business associate RIGHT BACK at Axl, and say "no Mr. Rose, your recent behavior, unprofessionalism, and sub-par product under the name 'GUNS N ROSES' has led me, as a fan, to the decision to now disavow myself from any future live shows under the name 'GUNS N ROSES' that do not involve one Saul Hudson, Michael McKagen, & Jeff Isabelle."
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
I think a middle line is the way of things.
It's wrong for fans to think we are owed an album. At the same time - its natural for a fan of music to want to seek out new music by their favourite artitsts.
And i'd expect that if Axl found out about 'lost' records by Nazereth or Queen or whomever he loves...that he'd have some excitment at the prospect of hearing it one day.
Likewise its natural for us to be keen, and while we may not be owed it, the GNR camp has for years on end made refrences to the album - which has kept the fires of hope and desire alive. I mean if they gave out a statement in 1999 that Axl was retiring from music and public life no one would be waiting - but thats not what we get - we've had years of snippits about recording, guest players, song titles...there is logical reason for fans to be excited for the album.
As for evertthing else, I try and let the music do my talking for me. Sure there's politics - theres band memebers dismissals and quitting, there's been riots, arrests, some stuff i agreed with , some stuff I don't - but at the end of the day - I think what i get out of classic GNR and the new GNR music axl has given us maskes up for all that shit - so i'll continue to go to tours and buy the merchandise.
Sure in an ideal world it would be easier to be a fan, and the GNR camp would connect with and dig us fans, but many of these unsual perspectives axl has are probably also what helped him become the artist he is today and write the music he does. So I'll take the good with the bad. If he hates us...we'll that sucks...but hopefully he'll still release an album I love even if he hates me!
- JordanRose
- Rep: 6
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
I only just found this site since MSL mentioned it on his newsboard. Although I don't agree with everything e.g. Axlin08 says, it's an absolute pleasure to read posts and whole threads with proper, mature, well thought out, gramatically sound and long replies without having to wade through endless pages of moronic dumps posting pointless replies that contribute nothing. Awesome.
Re: WHO SHOULD YOU BELIEVE?
I only just found this site since MSL mentioned it on his newsboard. Although I don't agree with everything e.g. Axlin08 says, it's an absolute pleasure to read posts and whole threads with proper, mature, well thought out, gramatically sound and long replies without having to wade through endless pages of moronic dumps posting pointless replies that contribute nothing. Awesome.
welcome to the board JordanRose glad you are enjoying the place so far
