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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Song #2 (Prostitute) is the biggest gun of all IMO
i can't believe anyone would use slash's book in defense of slash for any slash vs. axl debate
Why - because he messed up a couple of calander dates for events that are more than 10 years ago? In the book he states his motivation for leaving GNR very clearly and I can't believe that in the face of that - people want to make out there is some other reason.
As for his work being "sub-par" after GNR...I think if you look at his contribution - the guitar parts - it isn't - the reason some of the songs may be lesser overall is they wern't made with the talents of Axl as well, but that's problems for the lyrics and melodies.
The solo is "street child" is beautiful, the "Fields of Joy" solo with Lenny Kravitzs was great....the solo in "Serial Killer" is easily on par with a a "Back of Bitch" style UYI solo....the riffing and solos on "It's Five O'clock Somehwere" is very much like a follow up to AFD and in a lot of songs is technically harder and more proficient. While i'll admit for the most part VR is stylisticlly more poppy and moving away from slash's core roots of 70s-blues-rock and thus a a bit different, If you look at the guitar parts of his solo work - and divorse them from the songs as full units...you find slash has definately kept par since GNR and has probably actually improved.
If you want to compare...its easier for Axl to write good songs without slash than it is for slash to without axl - as at the end of the day - there's more freakishly good guitarists out there than there are freakishly good singers. So it's easier for him to recruit a replacement to add what is missing.
That said...compare things from similar time frames...1999 demos vs the 1995 - would have been GNR record - of Snakepit1 - "It's five o'clock somewhere". Now its apples and oranges which is better. Snakepit's lyrics arn't the best in the world...and look..the demos guitar parts aren't so flashy either....the bottom line is slash excells at writing blues rock guitar, axl is standout at melodies and lyrics, and back when they could work together, the two complimented each other perfectly. Sadly they can't anymore.
- Captain Winkler
- Rep: -17
Re: Song #2 (Prostitute) is the biggest gun of all IMO
well the "director", as you put it, should maybe wrap up filming and put the movie out already..Slash is who he is and he lives to make all kinda of music, anything to keep busy...Slash would be dead if he was still with GnR, 14 years with nothing? my god the man cant stop playing music for a year let alone 14, check out his discography on the right side of the page..its insane..now compare it to axl's....and dont give me the quality over quantitiy bit either
i think you're assuming that if they in fact stayed together, they wouldn't have made music in that time. which, i believe is completely wrong, if the two had stayed together i can't see duff leaving if slash is there just like i don't think sorum would have been fired. yea i am aware this is all speculation but what you said was also speculation, and i think that it is reasonable to suggest that if the two had stayed together we would have heard at least one more album from them by now, maybe even two.
- Captain Winkler
- Rep: -17
Re: Song #2 (Prostitute) is the biggest gun of all IMO
one more quick point i feel i have to make, using slash's book as anything other than a skewed perspective on what occurred is ludicrous. slash himself acknowledges that all band members would view the events differently. but thats not the point, the point is that, do you really think by reading an autobiography you're going to read something that the person doesn't want you to know? do you actually believe slash is going to write "well in reality Axl wanted to experiment, and it just wasn't something i felt comfortable about doing so i bailed, the situation had also become difficult and i just couldn't handle it". no of cause he isn't, i am not saying sash is lying, i am saying that you're reading what slash intends for you to read, nothing more , nothing less.
Re: Song #2 (Prostitute) is the biggest gun of all IMO
Now that I've actually READ all the posts - I just wanted to say something about the whole Axl/Slash debate thing. It's a FACT (as in documented, more or less) that Slash quit the band because Axl wanted to go in various new directions. I for one, initially had my doubts - I wanted an asshole, and I didn't know who it was - and let's face it - Axl's an easy one to pin the asshole label on. As time went on, and no Gn'R material came out, I was seriously in need of a shot of whatever it was that I got out of Gn'R - so I bought and listened to just about everything Slash made or was on - and nothing, nothing - nada zilch. I mean - sure if you're just looking for good rock, etc - it was that, but it was just that. It was generic, maybe good - but overall fairly generic. I personally LIKE hearing something I've never heard before, and Slash was not providing me with that, and therefore - the tracks were all forgetable to me, same applies double to all the Velvet Revolver.
I WANTED to like the material. I TRIED to like it - No cigar.
I went out and hunted down the Izzy Stradlin' material - and I love Izzy, but again - the songs were good, but none of them had that 'holy shit, i can't believe this song is this good' feel that I got from the best GN'R work.
It's kind of about the music, and I love that Axl wanted to vary his sound, and it's kind of about the words, because - by god - Axl plumbs a lyrical mine that I personally resonate to very strongly - he is quite easily at his best with brain-shape songs - songs that are almost psychological examinations, introspective voyages through mind-fucked terrain.
But more so - it's about the words AND the music - it's how the song moves and shapes to mold the particular sentences into angry, wrathful, hopeful, desolate, loving, painful, pangs of meaning.
In cinematic terms - it's almost as though Axl were the film director and Slash was an actor - and without direction, he is devoid of meaningful context - and I know this may bring flames - but Weiland (am I even spelling it right) cannot provide the kind of context that I'm talking about here.
Axl gave Slash a context in which he could do the best work Slash has ever, ever, done. In the context of Axl's songs, and with the emotional thrust and depth that Axl's lyrics and melodies provided - Slash was magical. Truly magical. I have no doubt in my mind that the guitar parts in Estranged could not have been pulled off by ANYBODY else - and I don't mean that from a technical standpoint. Axl himself suspected this - which is why he specifically thanked Slash for his work on Estranged in UYI II's CD insert.
Axl's no fool, he knows damn well he provided the context, but he also knows that what Slash pulled off within that context was magic, soul-searing magic.
And I know for a fact, and history has demonstrated that Slash cannot travel that valley without Axl there to lead him across it.
And so here we are today - deal with the facts. Slash is NOT a member of GN'R - and I believe the work he did with Gn'R will remain unmatched unless he unites with somebody else who can provide him with the calibre of direction and vision and the depth of feel and meaning that Axl provided for him. People who are used to that particular combination will always feel betrayed almost by the fact that this particular coupling no longer exists - tough shit. I for one no longer cherish the guitar solo in and of itself. I am much more interested in songs as a whole, and when a song gives me the kind of emotional and lyrical rush that I can get from the likes of Better, Prostitute, etc - I don't go around wondering where the guitar solo is - and whether Slash might've/could've/would've played it better.
I just love some of the new stuff.
Some tracks, I still haven't quite made up my mind about, namely Shackler's Revenge and Rhiads & Bedouins (and I hope it isn't about what I'm thinking it's about)...but overall - in my mind - Axl is back, and is back with a vengeance, and I'll buy whatever that guy throws onto a cd
If Axl is the Scorsese to Slash's Leo DiCaprio
Axl is now the Scorsese to the new band's Pluto Nash.
Axl's lyrics are great, some of the best he's written but the music is bland, boring, copy cat and no riff or solo worth a shit worth mentioning outside of maybe "better"
Every Leak outside of Madagascar for me is disposable and overtly commercialized.
Track 2 is a generic November Rain without the epicness.
Re: Song #2 (Prostitute) is the biggest gun of all IMO
war wrote:i can't believe anyone would use slash's book in defense of slash for any slash vs. axl debate
Why - because he messed up a couple of calander dates for events that are more than 10 years ago? In the book he states his motivation for leaving GNR very clearly and I can't believe that in the face of that - people want to make out there is some other reason.
As someone who spent a good while examining Slash's account of the breakup as handed down in his autobiography, I felt I should mention that when set against proper timelines, the account itself is nothing short of frustrating. More than once was I forced to second-guess or validate the year Slash was in, as I wasn't all that certain when going by the text.
His motivation and general sentiments come across quite clearly, yes, even though he never bothers to ponder how his own liquor-soaked appearance might've rubbed on other people, particularly the health-zealot Axl, who'd already warned the band years ago about dancing with Mr Brownstone. No doubt he wasn't all that lenient over Slash's drinking problems either.
one more quick point i feel i have to make, using slash's book as anything other than a skewed perspective on what occurred is ludicrous. slash himself acknowledges that all band members would view the events differently. but thats not the point, the point is that, do you really think by reading an autobiography you're going to read something that the person doesn't want you to know?
I'll have to agree with you on that. Slash's perspective in his autobiography, although quite likely the most verbose account we have on that period, is also as biased as you can get. Slash fails to find anything wrong from his own behavior or character, as Axl systematically alienates old associates as well as band members, while working his way towards an elusive goal Slash cannot comprehend.
In case anyone's interested, here's the yearly breakdown of the, erm, breakdown.
- Captain Winkler
- Rep: -17
Re: Song #2 (Prostitute) is the biggest gun of all IMO
Axl's lyrics are great, some of the best he's written but the music is bland, boring, copy cat and no riff or solo worth a shit worth mentioning outside of maybe "better"
Every Leak outside of Madagascar for me is disposable and overtly commercialized.
Track 2 is a generic November Rain without the epicness.
i would have to disagree, but thats your opinion, you've clearly made up your mind and nothing i can say will change that.
however, i can't help but think many people whom associate November rain with epicness(i also do, most epic song GNR have done imo) are doing so as a result ,or at least no small part, of November rain's video, which none of the new songs have the benefit of possessing. videos give the song a theme and feel of its own, shaping the music's effect on you more so than the actual sound. i feel that if song 2 or TWAT were given a 7 minute accompanying video, with the budget and grandeur of November rain or estranged, those people who don't like the songs, would view them entirely differently.
Re: Song #2 (Prostitute) is the biggest gun of all IMO
war wrote:i can't believe anyone would use slash's book in defense of slash for any slash vs. axl debate
Why - because he messed up a couple of calander dates for events that are more than 10 years ago? In the book he states his motivation for leaving GNR very clearly and I can't believe that in the face of that - people want to make out there is some other reason.
As for his work being "sub-par" after GNR...I think if you look at his contribution - the guitar parts - it isn't - the reason some of the songs may be lesser overall is they wern't made with the talents of Axl as well, but that's problems for the lyrics and melodies.
The solo is "street child" is beautiful, the "Fields of Joy" solo with Lenny Kravitzs was great....the solo in "Serial Killer" is easily on par with a a "Back of Bitch" style UYI solo....the riffing and solos on "It's Five O'clock Somehwere" is very much like a follow up to AFD and in a lot of songs is technically harder and more proficient. While i'll admit for the most part VR is stylisticlly more poppy and moving away from slash's core roots of 70s-blues-rock and thus a a bit different, If you look at the guitar parts of his solo work - and divorse them from the songs as full units...you find slash has definately kept par since GNR and has probably actually improved.
If you want to compare...its easier for Axl to write good songs without slash than it is for slash to without axl - as at the end of the day - there's more freakishly good guitarists out there than there are freakishly good singers. So it's easier for him to recruit a replacement to add what is missing.
That said...compare things from similar time frames...1999 demos vs the 1995 - would have been GNR record - of Snakepit1 - "It's five o'clock somewhere". Now its apples and oranges which is better. Snakepit's lyrics arn't the best in the world...and look..the demos guitar parts aren't so flashy either....the bottom line is slash excells at writing blues rock guitar, axl is standout at melodies and lyrics, and back when they could work together, the two complimented each other perfectly. Sadly they can't anymore.
a lot of nothing related to what i was saying
an awful lot
so what i was saying was: after reading a post that went something like this.........slash is right and axl is wrong. if you don't believe me, go read slash's book, i felt the need to say what i did.
a book is only as true as it's author is honest. so you can not validate the author's credibility while using what he said in his book to confirm your story.
on a side note slash has been busted lying in the past
