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James

 Rep: 664 

Re: The Sopranos

James wrote:

^

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doesn't it even tease Meadow getting run over as she's crossing the street or something like that?

No.

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If Tony lives, what he sees when looking up is Meadow coming through the door. She is just about to enter the restaurant then the camera switches to Tony who looks up then we get the black screen. We actually hear her enter the restaurant from the bell jingling as she runs in.

Interesting theory that Meadow might have been the one to get shot, not Tony. The black screen could symbolize Tony passing out from seeing her get killed, not his actual death.

I don't think she's dead though. I don't think Tony is dead either, but if anyone in this situation is dead, it's him.

The ending isn't that bad. First time I watched it I wasn't impressed, but on a second viewing I think Chase is trying to tell the audience something, but everyone focuses too much on the black screen. I might watch the last season again(even though a lot of it sucks) to see if I can pick up on any clues to see why Chase ends the series like this. Will definitely pay more attention to whatever subplot revolves around Meadow. Only thing I remember is she broke up with Finn and becomes engaged to Patrick.

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Meadow is the only Soprano to live. And in an odd sense, she's the most deserving. From day one, Meadow was the only half-way decent one, with a good heart, the rest were all varying degrees of scum, especially that punk AJ.

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A family massacre is a bit of a reach. I do agree that Meadow was the most saintly of all the characters, and this might be why Chase leaves her out of the potential line of fire. She doesn't deserve to experience it from that point of view.

Still doesn't explain her running towards the restaurant. Does she have news to tell everyone? Is she pregnant? Did she just break up with Patrick? Did she find out something, and wound up not getting there in time to tell Tony?

Axlin16

 Rep: 768 

Re: The Sopranos

Axlin16 wrote:

Hidden Text:

It's just filler to make her entrance drag. I think you're seeing too much into it. It basically is a set up, to make Tony, Carmela & AJ sitting in the restaurant eating onion rings (if I remember correctly), and the gunmen (somebody suspiciously there), while Meadow drags and drags getting inside, she then rushes inside, because she's running behind (for whatever reason), and because of her own tardiness, her life is spared. But originally the whole family was gonna get whacked.

If you want to come up with some hidden reason as to why Meadow was late, then rushing, by all means go ahead. But by that same logic, I could turn around and say Bobby took his sweet time getting upstairs because he wanted JR to blow his brains out, in the Dallas series finale.

Neemo

 Rep: 485 

Re: The Sopranos

Neemo wrote:

the mob doesnt just kill everyone for killing sake...if anyone died it was Tony for all the crap that was happening between ny/nj

Axlin16

 Rep: 768 

Re: The Sopranos

Axlin16 wrote:

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Yeah, but Phil was dead. A retaliation kill, by a bunch of made guys, when you don't have a boss anymore, could've been targeted at the entire Soprano family. The NY/NJ sects were left in utter chaos. They were already facing off, and attempts were already being made on pretty much the entire mob family.

Granted, only Phil was killed, and not his personal family, who witnessed his own murder.

Normally i'd agree with the concept being too far gone of a massacre, because it's not the mob's style. But it brings back the David Chase-factor. WHY? Why have Tony, Carmela & AJ specifically be in there sitting together, and intentionally leave Meadow out as late, and running behind.

There's only two things I can think of. Massacre, every except Meadow dies. Or, like James said... Meadow had something to do with it, which is even further out there.

Neemo

 Rep: 485 

Re: The Sopranos

Neemo wrote:

i doubt she had anything to do with it....i understood it was a throwback to epsiode one season one where Tony witnessed his father die...to me it left it open for AJ to step up no matter how Tony tried to steer him away from it in the end fate is inevitable

Axlin16

 Rep: 768 

Re: The Sopranos

Axlin16 wrote:

AJ??!?!

They toyed with that idea a bit when he was hanging with those punk kids, and was rebelling against Carmela after Tony got kicked out of the house in Season 5, I believe.

By Season 6, AJ had become a suicide-attempting little spoiled douche. No way were they grooming him to take Tony's role. If anything his destiny was death.

James

 Rep: 664 

Re: The Sopranos

James wrote:

AJ was a straight up pansy. He was also incompetent. He couldn't run a lemonade stand. I'll never forget that scene when Tony picks him up after AJ's attempted "hit" on Junior. The look of disgust on Tony's face was priceless.

Nobody took AJ seriously. He had to get validation from rich kids on the outside, who didn't actually care about him but were more interested in his dad.

With Tony gone, he would have more likely been shoveling dog shit than running a crew, and he probably would have been bullied by others, maybe killed for shits and giggles.

If anybody in Tony's family was gonna step up to the plate, it would have been Meadow as she was liked by everyone. However, I doubt that would have happened as well because nobody in the mob is gonna take orders from a woman in her 20s, and definitely not from one who had always distanced herself from the lifestyle.

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A retaliation kill, by a bunch of made guys, when you don't have a boss anymore, could've been targeted at the entire Soprano family. The NY/NJ sects were left in utter chaos. They were already facing off, and attempts were already being made on pretty much the entire mob family.

Excellent point. Basically a "scorched earth" policy.

jimmythegent

 Rep: 30 

Re: The Sopranos

jimmythegent wrote:

I watched the final episode again last night for shits and giggles. Since a few in this thread haven't watched the whole series, I better wrap this in spoiler tags.....

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Since I already knew what to expect, I focused on what leads up to the infamous 'black screen of death'. Of course we see these various suspects in the restaurant that may or may not be there to kill Tony, but what sticks out as unusual is how Chase approaches the final minute of the series. We get a lengthy segment of Meadow parking her car properly, and for reasons we'll never know, once out of the car, she is rushing to get in the restaurant. As you all know, when Tony looks at the door as she's coming in, it ends.

Considering all the dream sequences and other symbolism we endured watching this series, this obviously means something. What exactly that meaning is I'm not really sure, but she is clearly patient while parking her car, yet there is a sense of urgency as she's basically running to the restaurant. What makes this final moment of the series even more interesting is the fact she was the most minor character in Tony's immediate family.

When Carmela and AJ arrive at the restaurant, no excess drama or suspense is used. They simply arrive and its no big deal. There is an intentional build up concerning Meadow's arrival. I'm sure someone could chalk it up to just creating suspense leading up to that final second, but the same effect could be achieved without using her in that manner.

The final two people to be seen onscreen in this series are Tony and Meadow. That isn't by chance. I know the ending is open to interpretation(did he live or did he die?), but when reading discussion on the ending, people seem to argue which of the people in the restaurant killed Tony, yet ignore the final segment itself.

No, I'm not suggesting Meadow killed him. I just find it interesting that Chase made her the main focus of the final minute of the series, and I'm surprised I didn't notice that when I first watched it. IF Tony does die when it goes black, it makes the previous minute even more bizarre.

Forget that black screen and the suspects in the restaurant. What is Chase trying to convey during that sequence with Meadow? Why is she the only member of his family to not be at the table during his supposed execution?

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I think she was late, and that provided the distraction necessary for Tony not to be aware of his killer, as well as obvioulsy ratcheting up the tension.

It also created symmetry in the sense that everytime the bell sounded, Tony would look up and then we would see what Tony saw - in the last instance it was not as it it previously was in the sequence - the person entering - it was black - death - we are seeing what Tony is seeing and that sequence had been well established throught out the entire scene.

As far as symbolism goes, there is a ton that i won't go into, but specific to Meadow, she was the saintly character, and perhaps she had the ability to 'save' Tony had she been on time - instead she provided the distraction necessary for the shooter.

myillusions

 Rep: 5 

Re: The Sopranos

myillusions wrote:

I was just thinking yesterday how much I miss the show. Even though the series did have some boring episodes and seasons, it was still a very good show.

polluxlm

 Rep: 221 

Re: The Sopranos

polluxlm wrote:

Watching the show, again.

Season 4 is my favorite, with 2 close behind. Then it gets tough. 1 is very tight but relatively light on character exploration. 3 is a little disjointed, 5 is good but worn. 6 is a mess but some of my favorite scenes are from that season.

Greatest show ever.