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Re: The Sopranos
One of the reasons for the decline(besides lack of ideas) was the fact so much time went by between some of these seasons. I don't know the reason for that as I know very little about the show, but its awkward because you see these actors have noticeably aged between seasons and shit happens between seasons that they don't have to bother going into any detail. One minute Tony's sister is helping out Bobby and his kids after his wife died, the next minute they are married with a kid. Meadow is living in Cali with her boyfriend, and then with zero explanation given, she's living back home and not liking him. One minute AJ is enthralled with some rich chick, the next minute he's clubbing and dating some hispanic single mother. Tony is against Meadow dating some half black dude, yet isn't bothered by his son dating damaged goods with extra baggage? Please. They just gave up after the first few seasons. Couldn't even bother to keep things consistent.
I also didn't like how the Tony character changed over time. Not just him, but the whole crime family. First we are led to believe they are pretty powerful and influential, and in the 2nd half of the series he basically rolls over for anybody's demands and obviously has very little power like we were lead to believe. Even influential people dying doesn't change the situation.
I also didn't like how this Phil character just took over. Wasn't mentioned early on in the show, gets out of prison as pretty much a nobody, then 5 seconds later he's running the show. Only reason this guy is running the show is because the actor has been in every mob related show ever made.
Good points on Melfi, but I didn't want them having a relationship, although that couldn't have turned out any worse than it did. The characters were sorta like Mulder/Scully. You need that sexual tension between the characters to keep things moving.
The series turned into what I feared the moment I started watching it: typical mob shit. I'm surprised Paul Sorvino never made an appearance. He's the only thing missing from this drawn out cliche.
The first half of this series was a masterpiece. The second half is just a huge fuck you to the audience.
I have about half the season left. I think I'll pull an all nighter and wrap this up.
Re: The Sopranos
Ex-"Sopranos" actor commits suicide
Police said the actor who portrayed the lover of a closeted mobster on "The Sopranos" died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound in New York.
Police spokesman Lt. John Grimpel said John Costelloe, 47, was found dead at his Brooklyn home Dec. 18.
The former New York City firefighter gained fame in 2006, when he was cast as short-order cook Jim "Johnny Cakes" Witowski opposite Joseph Gannascoli, who played gay mobster Vito Spatafore.
Costelloe was performing in a theater production of "Gang of Seven" at the time of his death; he also has a role in the current film "Doubt."
Did they force him to watch season six again and it was the straw that broke the camel's back?
Re: The Sopranos
No lie James, the real reason for the time between seasons... NOBODY WANTED TO KEEP DOING IT.
Seriously. Everyone wanted to move on after Season 4. Gandolfini wanted to become a major film actor, so did Jamie Lynn Sigler. Steven Van Zandt wanted to get back to the E Street Band, etc.
HBO had a massive cultural legend on their hands at that point, and it HAD to go on. But David Chase didn't want to it. Neither did the actors, until they sat at home for year, jobless, and realized "hey, I might need that gig" and went back to it.
Chase didn't even want to do it past Season 4. After it was off a year, most speculated it'd never return. Then it was announced two years later, that it was coming back for a 5th Season, and audiences were SO starved for The Sopranos, that David Chase's half-ass was devoured as magic by audiences who were starved for ANYTHING Sopranos-related.
Looking back at the Season 4-to-Season 5 transition, it's now painfully obvious, which was speculated for a few years, that the actual WAIT for Season 5 over two years, was the "jump the shark" moment for the series. It lost all momentum, and the cast & crew were brought back kicking and screaming. And if you actually watch those episodes, you can see a significant atmospheric change. You go from classic-Sopranos in Season 4, to what the fuck is this-Sopranos in Season 5. Different show, with familiar faces under the same name.
And then the joke of it all... they take ANOTHER two year break after Season 5, to come back WITH EVEN WORSE material.
In hind sight, David Chase was forced into it. Seeing how Vincent Van Patten directed most of it, they should've just given Chase a 'Consulting Producer' title, and handed the show's reigns over to Van Patten. Then hired a writing staff, totally fresh, with new ideas, that hadn't been previous associated with the past seasons.
It might not of saved the show, but it might've been better. Anything could've been better at that point. And a 'fat-trimming' process needed to be done, that would've saw HALF the cast fired. Bring back Tony, Melfi, Carmella, Syl, Paulie, Johnny Sack, and that's it. Tony's sister - gone, Uncle Jun - gone, Christopher - gone, Adriana - gone, Meadow - gone, AJ - gone...
It needed a BIG re-invention if it just had to keep going. But what ended up being done - sucked.
Re: The Sopranos
Thanks for the info on the show. Certainly puts the downward spiral of this series into perspective.
Just finished watching a handful of episodes. I'll save the series finale until tomorrow night. This show is basically unintentional comedy at this point. AJ seeing a counselor and then attempting suicide is nothing but the writers crying out for help. The biggest joke of all being Dr. Melfi dropping Tony as a patient like the past 7 years were nothing. We were bombarded every season with her begging Tony to stay, yet she dumps him at the drop of a hat. There's no method to the madness anymore. She's only dumping him because the series is ending and they want to wrap it up. Its just lame on so many levels.
The mob war going on now is a fucking joke. 99.9% of the interesting characters are all gone and its just a skeleton crew of old geezers at this point. This war should have broke out during the Carmine/Johnny Sac angle back in season 4. Now its meaningless.
Terrible and uncreative way for Christopher to leave the show. He was one of the prime characters throughout the entire series and deserved a better exit. A suicide over possible guilt over Adriana's death would have been more fitting. They didn't handle her angle very well either.
HBO, Chase, and whoever else involved in this clusterfuck should be ashamed of themselves for what they did to this show. I feel sorry for the millions of people who waited for this each week. At least people like myself who missed out on the initial run are able to watch this shit in huge chunks and get it over with quick.
- DoubleTalkingJive
- Rep: 74
Re: The Sopranos
I've always said the Soprano's lost it after Season 3. I remember being dissappointed with alot of the episodes after that point. One thing that did happen that ruined the show big time was that the show was taking major flack for the violence and they cut that down tremendously. Focused more on dream sequences and more of the drama of the show. This show needed the violence as well as the story, that's what made it work. Take alot of the raw violence away and it made the show more of a mobster soap opera and I hated the director direction they went with Chris.
The show wasn't as raw as it was in the first 3 seasons. Although, I think Christophers death was pretty intense considering that Tony killed him, I thought that was pretty ballsy. Taking his own life would have been to predictable. Even tho, the last 2 seasons sucked, I still miss the show.
Re: The Sopranos
You miss it? I'm not even finished yet and I don't miss it. 
Well, I do miss what the show used to be. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I wish I had stopped watching around season 3 or 4. I would hold the show in higher regard if I did.
The lack of violence in the home stretch helped make all the weaknesses stand out even more. It didn't suck because the violence wasn't there, it sucked because they had ran out of ideas and most of the good characters were already gone or about to be gone. If you take the violence out of the first few seasons, its still a good show at its core because it had a story to tell.
I googled this show last night and read some more general things about it. I'm shocked that some people want this show to come back for another season, or as a movie. No thanks.
I'm shocked the Furio character never came back. They dropped the ball regarding that. What was the point of setting that storyline up just to have him run away like that? The character was wasted until they did the Carmela storyline, and then it was for nothing.
I don't think suicide was too predictable. He was a semi functioning drug addict. In reality, he would have considered it at some point, especially with everything that happened to him. Another great exit would have been him overdosing on heroin in Tony's bathroom(accidentally).
Re: The Sopranos
Miss it? Lmao...
I'll miss The Shield.
Since watching the series finale of The Sopranos last year... not once have I missed the series. Not once. In fact watching the end of it, I felt like Syl walking up to a wounded an crawling Adriana, and putting that one last bullet in her head to finish her off. That's what the end of that show felt like.
I haven't missed it once, and I have all the episodes on DVD. I don't even know if they'll ever be watched again. Probably just collect dust in the closet.
The Sopranos is one of those shows... when you've seen it. You've seen it. It doesn't have a real 're-watchability' to it. It just doesn't. And I still watch fuckin' "Dallas" episodes. So it ain't the fact it's a drama, it just is a one-time thing imo.
Re: The Sopranos
Parts of season 6 was pretty ridiculous and stretched. The Ray Curto storyline which they had built for 3 seasons ended with a total cop out when he gets a heart attack in the first episode, then after that one of the perifer characters is also exposed as a rat, then he too dies in that very same episode. And it's not over yet, after that Tony gets shot!
The Ray Curto storyline could have been great, and I think they could have resolved it by Agent Harris (with an active FBI HQ approval angle) helping to squash the case in return for some bullshit terror advice (happens more often than one might think). The Vito thing could have been great if they had just cut out the out of town scenes. Sopranos is about Jersey and sometimes Brooklyn, not fucking Nutall or whatever, and certainly not some Village People biker with a soft side. The reactions in the mob though were pretty good. Other than that they should have taken a different approach with AJ. Him becoming a liberal wuzz is just plain boring. They seemed to be on the right track when he fixed a party at the end of 5. At least make him a little independent.
However, I think the rap this show gets is way exaggerated. True, it didn't have the same feel after the second to third season, and in many ways the first, but the show still retained a fair share of unchallenged quality. And in many aspects it grew all the way to the end. The portrait of a man that runs his family like a business and then goes to the shrink to become better at it is great and complex all the way to the cop out ending. In many ways I consider season 4 the best for its immense character development and intricate writing. I've probably watched all the seasons 5-10 times and every time I discover something new.
Every show jumps, but the Sopranos sharks are still superior to 99% of the shows out there. Season 6, even though seriously flawed still had some great moments. The baptizing of Chris' child comes to mind. The music and silent exchange between him and Tony sent chills down my spine. Paulie's reaction to Vito being gay was satisfying to say the least, and the way they played on Phil taking it up the ass while in prison without actually saying it was also great. He's never been in the can, not really.
Apart from that I think the show was of good quality up to the end of season 5.Tony sitting down with the anguished horse is season 4 with a cigar is perhaps one of the best scenes of the series. No dialouge but still so powerful. The finale in 4, Whitecaps, contains some of the strongest acting ever seen on TV and the screen in general. Steve Buscemi and the Johnny Sack storyline in 5 was great.
Re: The Sopranos
The Sopranos is one of those shows... when you've seen it. You've seen it. It doesn't have a real 're-watchability' to it. It just doesn't. And I still watch fuckin' "Dallas" episodes. So it ain't the fact it's a drama, it just is a one-time thing imo.
I disagree with that.
I do agree that the last couple seasons lost a lot and went for a more artsy kind of look and feel, and a lot of potential goldmine stories were squandered. Pretty much every arguement in this thread about what's wrong with it toward the end I agree with as a matter of fact.
But I'm pretty sure I could watch 1-4 over and over infinitely. The later seasons, I'll still probably watch from time to time, like if I'm going through a summer where nothings on tv and decide to start at the beginning and work my way through.
Even after seeing them multiple times, I'll get into it enough to still watch a couple a night of the first seasons if I have enough spare time though.
