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- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
Sky Dog wrote:Tommy has backed that up...RTB didn’t work and they thought the album was done.
In hindsight that is the point of no return.
You could make a case for the Ezrin "3 songs" fiasco but the damage hadn't been done yet. That can be walked back, everyone take a breather, and negotiate a release with the label.
He couldn't/wouldn't stick to his guns and all momentum was lost. They never got it back.
The project needed competent management from day one...or at least at the moment that the album was ready in 2001 and 2002.
Someone like Azoff would've had the album on the launch pad before the opening Jungle scream at the VMAs.
Baffling levels of incompetence allowed a major rock band on a major tour launching a comeback on national television to not have a single song....much less an album...to be in stores....and then allow the singer to shit can the idea of a coming album in an interview right after the performance.
Then it gets worse....
He abandons his own band in Philly to fend for themselves.
A year later they accidentally stumble into a nationwide buzz when IRS leaks on the Trunk show. Literally within hours, they stomp this buzz to death in its cradle.
Just unbelievable stupidity.
I can't imagine how frustrating this shit must have been for people like Tommy and Robin.
The situation was so much worse than fans believed at the time.
Like I said...they needed real management.
Let's be brutally honest. Axl should have 100% retired in 1995 and never attempted any comeback.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
I dunno...I maintain 2006 Axl still had a charismatic vibe.
Like he looked older, but in a kinda tasteful classic rock way....the braids weren't for everyone but I thought in this era he kinda rocked them.
The voice was a long way from prime yet he was doing amazing screams that were bringing the house down and the odd moment of sheer brillance.
The only problem was people didn't really care for the replacement band, and that it was a classic hits tour (handful of CD songs excepted).
I think the NITL reunion done in 2006 (which nearly happened what with the slash visit earlier) would have been a mind-blowing comback....or hell...even the CD stuff dropped in 2006 not 2008 and then followed up with a more material would have gone better.
I mean nothing will be like UYI tour....but I think 2006 Axl had a bit of petrol in the tank.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
I dunno...I maintain 2006 Axl still had a charismatic vibe.
Like he looked older, but in a kinda tasteful classic rock way....the braids weren't for everyone but I thought in this era he kinda rocked them.
The voice was a long way from prime yet he was doing amazing screams that were bringing the house down and the odd moment of sheer brillance.
The only problem was people didn't really care for the replacement band, and that it was a classic hits tour (handful of CD songs excepted).
I think the NITL reunion done in 2006 (which nearly happened what with the slash visit earlier) would have been a mind-blowing comback....or hell...even the CD stuff dropped in 2006 not 2008 and then followed up with a more material would have gone better.
I mean nothing will be like UYI tour....but I think 2006 Axl had a bit of petrol in the tank.
2006 was cool. The problem is 2002 was complete shit, and much of his performance/image after 2006 is complete shit as well. Permanent retirement in 1995 would have been better than what has played out the last 25 years.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
Oh I see what you're saying.
It's a bit like with the horrors of the 27 club - as they say of the war deaths "age shall not weary them" etc.
We never got to see James Dean overweight, with a crook knee and post rehab #88 doing a charity gig well after his nap time.
So I mean, yeah UYI Axl for all the insanity of that tour was probably a top 5 frontman of all time.
It's a rough game to play that one though, I mean Quentin Tarrintino is only going to make one more movie for the same reasons, I feel we'd loose so much as a society if everyone chucked in the towel just to maintain a possible peak moment.
Like there's been a lot of Axl stuff I've really enjoyed over the years to go with the embarrassing stuff.
But it is frustrating too...like you watch stuff like Sailing in 2006 and realise the potential that didn't seem to get used.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
He wasted so much of his prime after 1993 that I wish he just stayed a hermit and never tarnished the public’s memory of him. We’ve gotten this strange hybrid deal of reclusiveness mixed with embarrassing downward trajectory in stage performance. Would have been cool if he never performed live after 1993, but focused all his energy into releasing as much new studio material as possible.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
He wasted so much of his prime after 1993 that I wish he just stayed a hermit and never tarnished the public’s memory of him. We’ve gotten this strange hybrid deal of reclusiveness mixed with embarrassing downward trajectory in stage performance. Would have been cool if he never performed live after 1993, but focused all his energy into releasing as much new studio material as possible.
That's a good assessment. IMHO I'd have preferred he just release a piano solo album of material (TIL, The Blues, Prostitute etc). Plus, like you said, stay a hermit too. Unless it exploded & he sorta had to tour behind it.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
James wrote:Sky Dog wrote:Tommy has backed that up...RTB didn’t work and they thought the album was done.
In hindsight that is the point of no return.
You could make a case for the Ezrin "3 songs" fiasco but the damage hadn't been done yet. That can be walked back, everyone take a breather, and negotiate a release with the label.
He couldn't/wouldn't stick to his guns and all momentum was lost. They never got it back.
The project needed competent management from day one...or at least at the moment that the album was ready in 2001 and 2002.
Someone like Azoff would've had the album on the launch pad before the opening Jungle scream at the VMAs.
Baffling levels of incompetence allowed a major rock band on a major tour launching a comeback on national television to not have a single song....much less an album...to be in stores....and then allow the singer to shit can the idea of a coming album in an interview right after the performance.
Then it gets worse....
He abandons his own band in Philly to fend for themselves.
A year later they accidentally stumble into a nationwide buzz when IRS leaks on the Trunk show. Literally within hours, they stomp this buzz to death in its cradle.
Just unbelievable stupidity.
I can't imagine how frustrating this shit must have been for people like Tommy and Robin.
The situation was so much worse than fans believed at the time.
Like I said...they needed real management.
The worst thing about that 3 song thing is its total BS.
Just listening to the locker leaks you hear way more than three songs that could be hits.
You can make a really great album out of the CD demos, the extra tracks with vocals and the instrumentals with the missing vocals.
Thing is, the album realistically only needed 1 hit and 2-3 good songs to have enough singles for promo - the rest could have been only fairly good to mediocre. If they had that and put some promo behind it, they could have done well. UYI peak levels of success and fame? No of course not, but there could have been some buzz and acceptable success.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
James wrote:Sky Dog wrote:Tommy has backed that up...RTB didn’t work and they thought the album was done.
In hindsight that is the point of no return.
You could make a case for the Ezrin "3 songs" fiasco but the damage hadn't been done yet. That can be walked back, everyone take a breather, and negotiate a release with the label.
He couldn't/wouldn't stick to his guns and all momentum was lost. They never got it back.
The project needed competent management from day one...or at least at the moment that the album was ready in 2001 and 2002.
Someone like Azoff would've had the album on the launch pad before the opening Jungle scream at the VMAs.
Baffling levels of incompetence allowed a major rock band on a major tour launching a comeback on national television to not have a single song....much less an album...to be in stores....and then allow the singer to shit can the idea of a coming album in an interview right after the performance.
Then it gets worse....
He abandons his own band in Philly to fend for themselves.
A year later they accidentally stumble into a nationwide buzz when IRS leaks on the Trunk show. Literally within hours, they stomp this buzz to death in its cradle.
Just unbelievable stupidity.
I can't imagine how frustrating this shit must have been for people like Tommy and Robin.
The situation was so much worse than fans believed at the time.
Like I said...they needed real management.
Let's be brutally honest. Axl should have 100% retired in 1995 and never attempted any comeback.
This is an amazing post. Probably one of the best I've seen this year.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
James wrote:Sky Dog wrote:Tommy has backed that up...RTB didn’t work and they thought the album was done.
In hindsight that is the point of no return.
You could make a case for the Ezrin "3 songs" fiasco but the damage hadn't been done yet. That can be walked back, everyone take a breather, and negotiate a release with the label.
He couldn't/wouldn't stick to his guns and all momentum was lost. They never got it back.
The project needed competent management from day one...or at least at the moment that the album was ready in 2001 and 2002.
Someone like Azoff would've had the album on the launch pad before the opening Jungle scream at the VMAs.
Baffling levels of incompetence allowed a major rock band on a major tour launching a comeback on national television to not have a single song....much less an album...to be in stores....and then allow the singer to shit can the idea of a coming album in an interview right after the performance.
Then it gets worse....
He abandons his own band in Philly to fend for themselves.
A year later they accidentally stumble into a nationwide buzz when IRS leaks on the Trunk show. Literally within hours, they stomp this buzz to death in its cradle.
Just unbelievable stupidity.
I can't imagine how frustrating this shit must have been for people like Tommy and Robin.
The situation was so much worse than fans believed at the time.
Like I said...they needed real management.
Let's be brutally honest. Axl should have 100% retired in 1995 and never attempted any comeback.
I wouldn't be THAT brutally t...but I get your point.
He couldn't handle the pressure. Period. Whatever the reason... doesn't matter...he couldn't do it.
It was simply too much weight on his shoulders. He also made it ten times worse on himself by boxing himself in with various comments, the constant venom spewed at ex members, one specifically... and the constant talk and bravado with zero follow through.
In hindsight it's obvious he lost interest a few years into the saga and everything after is just killing the clock until the planets align for Slash and Duff to come back...which should've happened in 2005.
I don't really like criticizing them anymore as they clearly meant something to him personally...but it has to be said...
Meeting Beta altered whatever course his life was heading in at that point. Tab's tendrils became entrenched in every level...to the point they eventually managed the band.
He was never the same again. As we get into the mid 90s, other than the performance with Springsteen at the HOF, he no longer did unique duets, no more TV appearances, no more guest appearances on albums, distances himself from the media, and once we pass the millennium...the ambition fades.
A series of incompetent management... culminating in a nanny and son obsessed with Slash and fan forums takes the steering wheel.
Watch any 2002 shows. He clearly doesn't even want to be there. Why bother even doing an album or pretending its coming.
The rants from that tour are cringe. That's not coming from someone intent in moving forward....it's coming from someone who longs to have the old gang back.
2009-14 a complete waste of his time. Don't forget how in 2016 one of their tour managers said that in 2011 Axl said he wanted to do a reunion but it wasn't time yet.
I don't think he should've retired in 1995. Too much talent...but he let it go to waste anyway.
What he should've done...and I've been saying this for a few years now...he should've done what Billy Joel did in 1993....
Announce that he's done creativity wise but he will do nostalgia tours from here on out.
For starters...he practically did it anyways. Only one album.
He would still be able to pull in casuals fans to hear the hits.
If/when he gets a boost of creativity, he can surprise the world with some sort of release.
Such a strategy could not have been any worse than how it played out.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
I dunno...I maintain 2006 Axl still had a charismatic vibe.
Like he looked older, but in a kinda tasteful classic rock way....the braids weren't for everyone but I thought in this era he kinda rocked them.
The voice was a long way from prime yet he was doing amazing screams that were bringing the house down and the odd moment of sheer brillance.
The world briefly got to see 2006 in shape and kicking ten tons of ass Axl because it had been in preparation of a reunion.
That got shit canned for whatever reason and we got the usual crap to go along with it...
Late starts, bullshit promises, stale set lists, etc.
That's when this was all supposed to happen...and it did happen in an alternate universe m
Not in top shape in 2016 but by then it didn't matter as much and was about cashing in chips...not truly writing a new chapter.
