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Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
Roger Waters is more talented, harder working, and politically lucid than Axl.
Well...yeah. I'm not sure that's even open to debate on a GNR forum. Axl only beats him in the vocals and charisma department.
The album is just a godforsaken mess. Even though most of the songs are covering the same ground, it's not cohesive...and no attempt made to somehow link it all together.
Hell...even its track sequencing feels random.
10 YEARS ... for this.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
Was the re-recording Axl's insecurity or him just forcing Ron on the album because he was in the band? I think Ezrin and Iovine did a number on him mentally.
The re-recording started in the early 00s with Brain's drum parts and then RTB asked for the whole album to be retracked. Once that happens... it's all down hill with the occasional good addition or change.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
Tommy has backed that up...RTB didn’t work and they thought the album was done.
In hindsight that is the point of no return.
You could make a case for the Ezrin "3 songs" fiasco but the damage hadn't been done yet. That can be walked back, everyone take a breather, and negotiate a release with the label.
He couldn't/wouldn't stick to his guns and all momentum was lost. They never got it back.
The project needed competent management from day one...or at least at the moment that the album was ready in 2001 and 2002.
Someone like Azoff would've had the album on the launch pad before the opening Jungle scream at the VMAs.
Baffling levels of incompetence allowed a major rock band on a major tour launching a comeback on national television to not have a single song....much less an album...to be in stores....and then allow the singer to shit can the idea of a coming album in an interview right after the performance.
Then it gets worse....
He abandons his own band in Philly to fend for themselves.
A year later they accidentally stumble into a nationwide buzz when IRS leaks on the Trunk show. Literally within hours, they stomp this buzz to death in its cradle.
Just unbelievable stupidity.
I can't imagine how frustrating this shit must have been for people like Tommy and Robin.
The situation was so much worse than fans believed at the time.
Like I said...they needed real management.
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
One more thing....
I still believe they should've released an EP in 2002.
It achieves several things....
Momentum for the tour
Gives the media something to talk about
Rallies his large hardcore base... which is still behind him 100% at this point.
The infamous Boston radio promo ad should've been for both a tour and album.
EP
Chinese Democracy
The Blues
Madagascar
Riad
------
Edit - Back then I thought Silkworms should be on the EP. Not anymore. Since it's been dropped from the set, leave it in the vault.
-------
That's it. Boom...launch that fucker and let the chips fall where they may.
Yes...there are cons to doing this.....
If it falls flat....it's over. Period. Chinese Democracy is a dead Peking duck.
It also starts up the issue over the name, comparisons to the old band, etc. Was he in the proper state of mind in 2002 to potentially deal with it? Probably not.
With how it turned out anyway....IMO it was a risk worth taking.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
I don't even acknowledge the existence of the official studio version. Deleted it from iTunes library and I only have the Brian May demo version in my listening collection. Similar to My World, which does not exist in my collection. The end of Illusion 2 album is Don't Cry Alternate for me.
- davegnfnr2k
- Rep: 1
Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye
Sky Dog wrote:Tommy has backed that up...RTB didn’t work and they thought the album was done.
In hindsight that is the point of no return.
You could make a case for the Ezrin "3 songs" fiasco but the damage hadn't been done yet. That can be walked back, everyone take a breather, and negotiate a release with the label.
He couldn't/wouldn't stick to his guns and all momentum was lost. They never got it back.
The project needed competent management from day one...or at least at the moment that the album was ready in 2001 and 2002.
Someone like Azoff would've had the album on the launch pad before the opening Jungle scream at the VMAs.
Baffling levels of incompetence allowed a major rock band on a major tour launching a comeback on national television to not have a single song....much less an album...to be in stores....and then allow the singer to shit can the idea of a coming album in an interview right after the performance.
Then it gets worse....
He abandons his own band in Philly to fend for themselves.
A year later they accidentally stumble into a nationwide buzz when IRS leaks on the Trunk show. Literally within hours, they stomp this buzz to death in its cradle.
Just unbelievable stupidity.
I can't imagine how frustrating this shit must have been for people like Tommy and Robin.
The situation was so much worse than fans believed at the time.
Like I said...they needed real management.
The worst thing about that 3 song thing is its total BS.
Just listening to the locker leaks you hear way more than three songs that could be hits.
You can make a really great album out of the CD demos, the extra tracks with vocals and the instrumentals with the missing vocals.
