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Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
Wagszilla wrote:In light of Bri’s thread, this comment stuck out.
bigbri wrote:Axl's [Rose, GN'R singer] not gonna go for this.' And [the tour manager] is, like, 'It's John Sykes, man. He learned the songs.
Tommy Stinson and Del James are the bagmen in countless new GNR capers including the bullying of Buckethead (and Bumblefoot), tour delays, hostilities towards fans and much more.
Who do you think are the Top 5 parties?
1. Axl
2. Beta
3. Del James
4. Bob Ezrin
5. Tommy StinsonI'm unaware of the bullying. I thought BH left because of the inactivity.
Tommy and Del bullied BH
Tommy and Del bullied BBF (and Robin/Fortus didn’t exactly welcome him)
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
James wrote:1. Label politics
I’m open minded but I don’t agree.
Axl was either far too comfortable playing their game or lacked any sort of courage to take a stand.
Other acts have gotten the short shrift because of new acts coming on the scene. Other acts have gone with legal action to get some of their integrity and rights back. Other acts have called foul over industry practices. Other acts have managed to suck it up and take the hit and keep pressing on.
A contributing factor? Sure.
At the end of the day, he got $14m, countless industry people working on his behalf, etc. etc.
It’s a hard sell for me, barring specifics.
Who gets the blame for the Ezrin fiasco which essentially cluster fucked the project?
Axl thought it was ready. After listening to the Village Sessions I agree. Ezrin had valid points....but there IS an album ready to go. It was lacking a Jungle or SCOM but it was also lacking this 7 years later.
While we don't know the specifics of 2002, doesn't the label shoulder some of the blame here? It went from being ready to don't bother waiting.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
He was on a hiding to nothing and no matter how brilliant the new band or album or albums could have been, there was next to zero appetite for a new incarnation of GN'R. It would be like if Paul McCartney roped in 3 other no-names and claimed it was the Beatles. It wouldn't fly..
I didn't really believe this much at the time, but hindsight hits this point home. No one but hardcores were begging for a return. It was also a unique period in music history with so much going on and there isn't much room for them.
The days of 1990-91 with everyone holding their breath was over. Also look at the solo projects of ex members in this same period. They went nowhere. It wasn't until 2004 when they struck gold with VR.
Other than that brief period in 01 and 02 where the media gave him an opening, it was always going to have difficulty.
The cherry on top is how GNR started dropping in various greatest lists in magazines and MTV/VH1 shows.
Out of sight, out of mind....
1. Calling it Guns N' Roses - he should have called it what it was - a solo album or give the band another name. Chinese Democracy as a band name could've worked. No one wanted a Slash-less GN'R. Fact.
I was never a big fan of the name debate but I agree now. It wasn't GNR anyways...it was a supergroup. He could've easily marketed it as such.
Axl Rose
NIN guitarist
Guy from the Replacements
Two members of Praxis
How do you fuck that up?!?
I've said it before....Cornell did with Audioslave what Axl was supposed to do with Chinese.
Did it in the same timeframe too.
We were lead to believe he was obsessing constantly over CD for 13 years but if that were the case, how come most of his vocals that ended up on the record were allegedly recorded in 1999? Instead he was tinkering away on riffs and jams recorded in his absence. Hardly an inspired approach that would lead to a band sound.
It should've been scandalous on the forums in 2006 when we found out that the band hadn't been in the same room together since 2002. All those posts spanning years having visions of a perfectionist Axl and gang hard at work daily getting the album just right with the contrast of the reality of no one giving a shit AND an attempt to get a reunion going. The leaks created a nice diversion/distraction from this harsh reality.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
Wagszilla wrote:James wrote:1. Label politics
I’m open minded but I don’t agree.
Axl was either far too comfortable playing their game or lacked any sort of courage to take a stand.
Other acts have gotten the short shrift because of new acts coming on the scene. Other acts have gone with legal action to get some of their integrity and rights back. Other acts have called foul over industry practices. Other acts have managed to suck it up and take the hit and keep pressing on.
A contributing factor? Sure.
At the end of the day, he got $14m, countless industry people working on his behalf, etc. etc.
It’s a hard sell for me, barring specifics.
Who gets the blame for the Ezrin fiasco which essentially cluster fucked the project?
Axl thought it was ready. After listening to the Village Sessions I agree. Ezrin had valid points....but there IS an album ready to go. It was lacking a Jungle or SCOM but it was also lacking this 7 years later.
While we don't know the specifics of 2002, doesn't the label shoulder some of the blame here? It went from being ready to don't bother waiting.
The question is label politics and all we have to go off there is what Bob Ezrin told Jimmy Iovine and led Jimmy to pull back on the accelerator.
We’ve also vague comments (NYT) about turnover of people in Geffen —> Interscope —> Universal which is why I’m open minded. Perhaps there’s more dirt under the fingernails there but as of now the lions share of the burden falls onto Axl.
He wanted to turn in an album once, 2000. When he did it was the more stripped down act, perfectly fine. But what did he look like when he popped up in 2001? Like Axl Rose, the millionaire has-been and not like Axl Rose, the rockstar. I know Reebok track pants were in vogue in 2001 but that Rio show is just one big mess. You can’t make up for it with a Chris Jericho rave shirt and some Oakleys.
He finally looked the part in Dec 01. That’s when the launch sequence should have been activated. Fuck you, the missile is going out. He looked cool. The band? Circus freaks but he looked like the ringmaster. Do it, feast or famine, victory or death.
Instead he got a little chubby again and retreated into giant jerseys pandering to audiences like an asshole comedian in 2002. And backing up, it was Axl Rose who never showed up to rehearsals just like it was Axl Rose Inc. that couldn’t get an album released. This is your job. Do it, make it happen. I don’t care about security guards at the VMAs. Figure out how to make that happen, prepare so you don’t have stage fright, whatever. Axl is a “classic case” of a once genius ruining himself through his own hubris.
If the record company was cock blocking him so hard, then do more than say, a vague Rolling Stone piece as your “evidence” the album is ready. And again, he only did this in 2000.
After the abortion in 2002 he came back with Merck as his festival barker pulling a Cyberpunk 2077 over promising an album release when everyone knew that wasn’t happening.
At the end of the day, it’s at least 6 solid years of Axl sitting on his ass leaving everyone to wonder what’s going on. Nothing, it turns out.
I’m sure there are people in the know who can add their additional “Axl diva story” from 2001-2002 as well. I’ve heard some doozies.
I’m half in a mood to put the record company at 4 or 5 instead of Axl’s mentally deficient friend but when you bully your own band and your own fan base well you get what you deserve.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
And as far as the appetite not being there, I disagree.
2002-2004 was a wave of 80s nostalgia. All Axl had to do was show up. I’d even say 2005-onwards was more or less there for the taking. The age of one genre dominating the airwaves was over.
It could’ve been finding a place in a new era but instead he sat on his hands. And Better is, was, and will be catchy as hell.
And right now it could be just appreciating your fans and throwing them bones but I think what’s gonna happen is Axl’s gonna hold the ball until time expires so the Lebeis’ can cash in on his vault after he kicks the bucket.
What a waste.
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
mitchejw wrote:Wagszilla wrote:In light of Bri’s thread, this comment stuck out.
Tommy Stinson and Del James are the bagmen in countless new GNR capers including the bullying of Buckethead (and Bumblefoot), tour delays, hostilities towards fans and much more.
Who do you think are the Top 5 parties?
1. Axl
2. Beta
3. Del James
4. Bob Ezrin
5. Tommy StinsonI'm unaware of the bullying. I thought BH left because of the inactivity.
Tommy and Del bullied BH
Tommy and Del bullied BBF (and Robin/Fortus didn’t exactly welcome him)
What are those guys? Freaky little school girls? Poor Bumblefoot. 
Re: Top 5 Responsible for New GNR’s failure
In light of Bri’s thread, this comment stuck out.
bigbri wrote:Axl's [Rose, GN'R singer] not gonna go for this.' And [the tour manager] is, like, 'It's John Sykes, man. He learned the songs.
Tommy Stinson and Del James are the bagmen in countless new GNR capers including the bullying of Buckethead (and Bumblefoot), tour delays, hostilities towards fans and much more.
Who do you think are the Top 5 parties?
1. Axl
2. Beta
3. Del James
4. Bob Ezrin
5. Tommy Stinson
Del is actually alright.
I think there are different way of looking at things. I don't think Axl would have continued without people around him he could trust, whether those people have made good decisions over the years is debateable, but who makes good decisions all the time. It reads that the record company made the release of Chinese Democracy difficult, and I think that is a shame.
All the band can do now is worry about what happens in the future, and hopefully once Covid settles down we'll get something.
