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- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
A real court case would be: prove life begins at conception. How can a state legally prevent a medical procedure? How forcing someone to travel across state lines for a medical procedure is not a federal issue, and not grounds for federal protections? How is an abortion not a civil liberties issue — see the first question.
As much shit as *Trump’s judges get, they are constitutionalists. Bush’s judges were Christian conservatives. Alito is a Bush Judge… though Roberts is proving to be a constitutional justice.
Isn't that ambiguity the challenge? I'm sure you and I agree that abortion at 40 weeks on a healthy child and mother would be murder, but there are people who believe that the "fetus" is not protected until it exits the woman. Common law defined life as starting when the baby can be felt, which generally aligns with 13 weeks or so. Until Roe was decided, every state in the country either banned abortion outright or had severe limitations on it. I don't think you can define when a fetus becomes a human life, or if you can, it's entirely based on your own opinion and conjecture. And if no fetus is a human life, people convicted of killing pregnant women and their children need to have their sentences adjusted.
We know what a man or a woman is, but our newest justice felt that was a difficult idea to articulate. If she can't determine what a woman is, how can she be expected to determine the moment life starts?
If you read Alito's opinion, his argument is that abortion was never a protected right from the constitution, and cites 800 years of common law and each state in the union's law up until the 14th amendment and at the time Roe was decided. He also goes to great lengths to negate any claims that this ruling impacts any other notion other than abortion, as both Roe and Casey already identity the unique circumstance of their decisions in determining when potential human life can be extinguished. This is a wholly unique subcategory of law separate from the right of consenting adults to fornicate or marry whom they choose.
I support abortion, but I'm looking for the pundits who have actually read Alito's opinion and can counter the arguments he made there. It's a tough job to do, and one I have yet to find in the numerous articles I've read on the topic this morning.
Re: Current Events Thread
I would say the heartbeat bills attempt to define when human life begins. At the same time, you’re saying that before that a pregnancy is a medical condition and isn’t a life. Imo, they’ve boxed themselves in here. There’s no way to prove life begins at conception, and you’re making *this the standard; when a heartbeat is detected. You really have no moral ground to ban abortion when you’re not protecting an unborn life.
They can’t have it both ways. If you’re forcing someone to cross state lines for a medical procedure it becomes a federal issue.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
If that’s the argument for life you’ve just lost in court.
Christ told his followers to be the best slaves they could be, so I guess we have to abolish the 13th amendment now cause some illiterate desert nomads 6k years ago had a clever story to tell. Anyone have 30 pieces of silver I can borrow? I'm going to go rape some A lister and pay her father to make her my 2nd wife.
Deuteronomy 22:29
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
Forcing these unwanted babies will create more problems. In a society that’s hooray for me and fuck you, these kids won’t have a chance.
At least they’ll fill up juvenile halls and jails though.
I'm a firm believer that Roe was a primary cause of the dramatic downturn in violence we experienced in the early 90s. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of unwanted children who never were forced to exist with mothers who couldn't care/didn't want them, and turned to the streets to survive.
I would not be surprised at all if we didn't see a big crime spike in 2040 as a direct result of Roe being overturned and the 20 or so states that will immediately act to ban all abortions.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: Current Events Thread
Should Down syndrome babies be aborted for having Down syndrome?
My wife and I have both agreed if our future child was diagnosed with down syndrome we'd abort it. I know Ohio passed a law that banned abortion solely due to down syndrome. I disagree with that. I respect the right of others to choose, and a decision like that isn't one to be made lightly. At the end of the day, if abortion is legal, it's legal. So long as those who choose to have it adhere to the requirements of applicable law, that should be the end of discussion. Others will probably have a strong opinion totally different than mine, but privacy was at the root of Roe and I think it's very important to maintain it.
With Collins and Murkowski calling for the Senate to affirm Roe, I hope they can find 8 more GOP Senators. I just hope the DNC doesn't go full bore and try to legalize abortion up to 40 weeks at the whim of the mother as VA and NY did. No way that law ever passes. Manchin has already confirmed he won't support removing the filibuster to codify Roe into federal law.
Re: Current Events Thread
I'm really torn on this. My main concern is quality of life, and there are plenty of things I would agree to abort a baby. Down syndrome makes me feel really bad, because it seems like you're doing it out of embarrassment for yourself and not so much concern for the child. I've heard many women say they'd abort a down syndrome baby, fwiw.
