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Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Okay. Those are mainly one on one crimes that happen in any society.
Right, the UK and Australia have more violent assaults and property crimes than the US too. You should read the work of John Lott. You can move violence around, but you can't really just eliminate it.
I own 3 guns.
I am responsible and not a fuggin idiot.
I don’t want 18 years olds toting AR-15’s anymore or other semi auto rifles that are very similar to an AR like an SKS or semi Auto AK etc. Fuck I don’t want them carrying any gun unless supervised by a licensed adult.
As far as ID’s stats, 500+ were shot in Vegas. You are talking deaths. If you include the number of people shot that lived it will really go up. Remember that those shot are victims too.
But you're ignoring the fact they kill less people than knives do. Fewer are used in suicides and accidental deaths. There's over five million people who own them legally right now, and less than 350 were used in a homicide... And it's not even that many because those stats include ALL rifles.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:IRISH OS1R1S wrote:I honestly think the first thing to do is put these shootings in perspective. Yes, they get huge publicity, yes they’re horrible, but they’re a fraction of 1% of gun murders..... of which the U.S. comes 2nd with the highest rates of violent gun deaths in North Africa and The Middle East. With a population of roughly 5% of the worlds population the U.S. holds 32% of global mass shootings.
Ah yes indeed, perspective.
Nothing to see here, move along.
And as a non-American, I don't expect you to understand that we value the constitution and don't change laws at the drop of a hat. You want to imply I encourage or am happy with our firearm fatalities. I'm not. I just recognize that the Supreme Court has ruled that the right to own a firearm is an individual right (Heller) and that this right extends to handguns (Chicago). So short of changing the constitution, which if you know anything about our laws, is damn near impossible, the majority of deaths in this country related to handguns aren't going to be impacted by a change of law.
Raising the age would help. Right now we are searching for things that could help reduce. We know there will always be cases where guns will kill people. The goal is to reduce that. The age hike would I think
What are we talking about here? All gun violence or school shootings? Kids can't buy guns in this country. So if the shooter was under 18, no law change would help them. The guy in Vegas was in his 60s, right? If I were emperor, I'd ban assault rifles to throw people a bone. But as ID has also pointed out, assault rifles are a fraction of a percent of annual firearm murders. Handguns are the primary culprit being used in 75-90% of murders depending on what source you look at. But everyone agrees it ain't AR-15s that are causing any statistical significance. Yes it's horrible. Yes I wish it didn't happen. But the amount of attention these mass shootings get relative to their actual representation of firearm homicides is incredibly misguided. SCOTUS is going to acknowledge that when any law comes before them. They've allowed handgun ownership to be set to 21 because of the amount of frequency they appear in violence. But assault rifles, not so much. The courts tend to frown on emotional arguments and want facts. To approve putting an extra burden on citizens they're going to want more than twitter posts from grieving families.
Re: US Politics Thread
Fwiw, I still think the age limit should be 21, unless in the military, with a clean instant background check to own an AR15, but less than 6% out of 5 MILLION AR15's are used in a murder... I think that stat matters. I'm actually even firmer on my "no ban" stance.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:And as a non-American, I don't expect you to understand that we value the constitution and don't change laws at the drop of a hat. You want to imply I encourage or am happy with our firearm fatalities. I'm not. I just recognize that the Supreme Court has ruled that the right to own a firearm is an individual right (Heller) and that this right extends to handguns (Chicago). So short of changing the constitution, which if you know anything about our laws, is damn near impossible, the majority of deaths in this country related to handguns aren't going to be impacted by a change of law.
Raising the age would help. Right now we are searching for things that could help reduce. We know there will always be cases where guns will kill people. The goal is to reduce that. The age hike would I think
What are we talking about here? All gun violence or school shootings? Kids can't buy guns in this country. So if the shooter was under 18, no law change would help them. The guy in Vegas was in his 60s, right? If I were emperor, I'd ban assault rifles to throw people a bone. But as ID has also pointed out, assault rifles are a fraction of a percent of annual firearm murders. Handguns are the primary culprit being used in 75-90% of murders depending on what source you look at. But everyone agrees it ain't AR-15s that are causing any statistical significance. Yes it's horrible. Yes I wish it didn't happen. But the amount of attention these mass shootings get relative to their actual representation of firearm homicides is incredibly misguided. SCOTUS is going to acknowledge that when any law comes before them. They've allowed handgun ownership to be set to 21 because of the amount of frequency they appear in violence. But assault rifles, not so much. The courts tend to frown on emotional arguments and want facts. To approve putting an extra burden on citizens they're going to want more than twitter posts from grieving families.
School shootings. Shooter was 19. He is still in High school.
Most hand gun gun crimes are black on black crimes. We know this. Most mass shootings in recent years are AR15 type guns.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: US Politics Thread
For the record I was talking about all gun crime. I think the focus on assault rifles is missing my point entirely.
Anyway I will bow out of this discussion as I'm not American and feel anything I say you have all heard before, and believe me I know the last thing you want to hear after such a tragedy is my mumblings on the subject.
I'll leave you with this editorial from the Sydney Morning Herald:
"It is incomprehensible to us, as Australians, that a country so proud and great can allow itself to be savaged again and again by its own citizens. We cannot understand how the long years of senseless murder, the Sandy Hooks and Orlandos and Columbines, have not proved to Americans that the gun is not a precious symbol of freedom, but a deadly cancer on their society.
We point over and over to our own success with gun control in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre, that Australia has not seen a mass shooting since and that we are still a free and open society. We have not bought our security at the price of liberty; we have instead consented to a social contract that states lives are precious, and not to be casually ended by lone madmen. But it is a message that means nothing to those whose ideology is impervious to evidence."
• Demand background checks
• Demand a ban on assault weapons
• Demand a ban on all modifications to convert weapons to semi or fully automatic
• Demand accountability by the Senators and Representatives on the NRA payroll."
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
For the record I was talking about all gun crime. I think the focus on assault rifles is missing my point entirely.
Anyway I will bow out of this discussion as I'm not American and feel anything I say you have all heard before, and believe me I know the last thing you want to hear after such a tragedy is my mumblings on the subject.I'll leave you with this editorial from the Sydney Morning Herald:
"It is incomprehensible to us, as Australians, that a country so proud and great can allow itself to be savaged again and again by its own citizens. We cannot understand how the long years of senseless murder, the Sandy Hooks and Orlandos and Columbines, have not proved to Americans that the gun is not a precious symbol of freedom, but a deadly cancer on their society.
We point over and over to our own success with gun control in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre, that Australia has not seen a mass shooting since and that we are still a free and open society. We have not bought our security at the price of liberty; we have instead consented to a social contract that states lives are precious, and not to be casually ended by lone madmen. But it is a message that means nothing to those whose ideology is impervious to evidence."
• Demand background checks
• Demand a ban on assault weapons
• Demand a ban on all modifications to convert weapons to semi or fully automatic
• Demand accountability by the Senators and Representatives on the NRA payroll."
Nice post.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
• Demand background checks - Already exists
• Demand a ban on assault weapons - Was tried in 1994. Had no impact on crime
• Demand a ban on all modifications to convert weapons to semi or fully automatic. - It's been illegal since 1986 to purchase a fully auto firearm and has been illegal for quite some time (I want to say 1929) to convert to full auto. But semi-auto weapons are perfectly legal.
• Demand accountability by the Senators and Representatives on the NRA payroll." I don't understand what this means. I think you're buying into the idea the NRA is a boogeyman keeping "common sense" gun laws from being impacted. We refuse to check ID to vote in this country and one state is now registering non-citizens to vote. Unlike Australia, our congress can't change a fundamental right overnight. We have a constitution that used to be (and probably still is) the envy of every free society in the world. It was designed to prevent knee jerk changes.
Re: US Politics Thread
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:• Demand background checks - Already exists
• Demand a ban on assault weapons - Was tried in 1994. Had no impact on crime
• Demand a ban on all modifications to convert weapons to semi or fully automatic. - It's been illegal since 1986 to purchase a fully auto firearm and has been illegal for quite some time (I want to say 1929) to convert to full auto. But semi-auto weapons are perfectly legal.
• Demand accountability by the Senators and Representatives on the NRA payroll." I don't understand what this means. I think you're buying into the idea the NRA is a boogeyman keeping "common sense" gun laws from being impacted. We refuse to check ID to vote in this country and one state is now registering non-citizens to vote. Unlike Australia, our congress can't change a fundamental right overnight. We have a constitution that used to be (and probably still is) the envy of every free society in the world. It was designed to prevent knee jerk changes.
Knee jerk reactions? School shootings have occurred since at least 1999 and no one does anything ever.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
Lol, Flagg, there are other free countries besides the US.... Give me a fucking break.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: US Politics Thread
We have a constitution that used to be (and probably still is) the envy of every free society in the world.
LMAO. Do you ever read back the shit you post sometimes, and more worryingly, do you actually believe it? Comedy gold right there. Your consitution was influenced by the Magna Carta, scribed in 1215. The amazing thing is that your founders had the sense to tailor it to the time they were living in, a lesson that seems to fly right over your head. 
I'll give you it certainly HAD infuence after its creation, but still "the envy of every free society"? GTFO lol.
Whatever mate, you sound like a hoot to have at parties.
