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Re: US Politics Thread
misterID wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:This is a lie. No other way to spin it. These weren't Republican concessions. Can you show me a single Republican member of congress in 2009 who asked for these concessions? Can you name a single Republican in congress who sat behind those closed door meetings with Pelosi's aides and crafted the bill? You guys wrote a bad bill, and tried to argue that some article from the Heritage Foundation in 1994 was somehow a basis for Pelosi and Reid's failed bill. You tried to call it Romneycare, because Romney was a governor of Massachusetts who passed a quasi healthcare bill through a Veto-proof democratic Senate.
Nothing of this bill was designed or advocated for by Republicans. It was entirely drafted and voted on by Democrats. YOUR PARTY didn't want single payer because not every Democrat is from San Francisco. Your failure to recognize this is why Clinton lost the election. You can't be like Mitch and shitposting "FUCK WHITEPEOPLE" for 18 months, then act perplexed when white people didn't vote for you in droves.
Politifact: 788 amendments were submitted during the ACA’s markup in the Senate Committee for Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee (HELP). Three quarters of them were filed by the committee’s Republican members, according to John McDonough in his book Inside National Health Reform. Of those, 161 were adopted in whole or revised form.
But Jost added that "there was very significant Republican participation early on on the Senate side. There were dozens of hours of debate, and Republicans like Sen. Chuck Grassley on the Senate Finance Committee were very engaged."
Jost said by September 2009 that period was over and from then on, the bill was strictly a Democratic piece of legislation.
It’s worth noting that many facets of the Republican’s health care agenda at the time made it into the Affordable Care Act. The Affordable Care Act was a private market plan, and it dropped a long-held Democratic priority to include a public option.
In the end, no Senate or House Republicans voted for the Affordable Care Act in its final version.
Please apologize.
What were there amendments? To strip the individual mandates? You're being completely disingenuous. What Republicans supported any part of the bill that was passed? Can you name one? Did or did not the bill pass with all 60 Democratic Senators voting yes, giving them the numbers to override any Filibuster?
So I'll ask you again, what REPUBLICAN ideas (Republican idea being defined as an idea from an actual member of Congress in the GOP) were added to this bill? Your own posts says one GOP Senator tried to engage, had all of his ideas shut down, and called it a "completely Democratic bill" but you somehow think I'm the one being dishonest? NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN IDEA was added to the bill. NONE. Not a single Republican voted for it.
It was entirely written by and voted on by Democrats. Just as the current healthcare bill before Congress is entirely written by and has thus far been voted on, by Republicans. If this bad bill somehow passes and turns out to be a nightmare, can I blame Democrats since the ACA is the basis for the entire bill?
You asked, I delivered. Apologize.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:100 people were shot. Not 100 were killed. I'm in Chicago about one week out of the month. I work on the North Shore right off Michigan and Wacker. I've never felt unsafe, but I also only stray from downtown to go up to Northfield or some restaurant my co-workers frequent. None are in the South Side or West Side bad parts of town.
Yes, safer in the white, upscale, or business districts and dangerous in the lower income black areas. But since we don't go to those places we feel safe while all the poor blacks live in fear. 100 people shot is a lot of people. Crazy high.
It is high, but per capita, is it? Like I said, 3 million people here. Not a lot folks actually involved in what's going on. And as I pointed out, in my new line of work I get out to these place every once in a while. I've never felt unsafe. The people in these neighborhoods for the most part don't like what's going on. They are people trying to live their live like you and me. But, there are a number of gangs ruining it for everyone.
When you say 3 million are you talking only if South and West Chicago and leaving out downtown and the white areas? If the shootings are only taking place in the hood we should only take the population of the hood and don't include all the nice areas that are from free. 100 shot is a fuck load. That was one weekend. 100 over a weekend is 5,200 for the year. That is CRAZY!!!
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:misterID wrote:Politifact: 788 amendments were submitted during the ACA’s markup in the Senate Committee for Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee (HELP). Three quarters of them were filed by the committee’s Republican members, according to John McDonough in his book Inside National Health Reform. Of those, 161 were adopted in whole or revised form.
But Jost added that "there was very significant Republican participation early on on the Senate side. There were dozens of hours of debate, and Republicans like Sen. Chuck Grassley on the Senate Finance Committee were very engaged."
Jost said by September 2009 that period was over and from then on, the bill was strictly a Democratic piece of legislation.
It’s worth noting that many facets of the Republican’s health care agenda at the time made it into the Affordable Care Act. The Affordable Care Act was a private market plan, and it dropped a long-held Democratic priority to include a public option.
In the end, no Senate or House Republicans voted for the Affordable Care Act in its final version.
Please apologize.
What were there amendments? To strip the individual mandates? You're being completely disingenuous. What Republicans supported any part of the bill that was passed? Can you name one? Did or did not the bill pass with all 60 Democratic Senators voting yes, giving them the numbers to override any Filibuster?
So I'll ask you again, what REPUBLICAN ideas (Republican idea being defined as an idea from an actual member of Congress in the GOP) were added to this bill? Your own posts says one GOP Senator tried to engage, had all of his ideas shut down, and called it a "completely Democratic bill" but you somehow think I'm the one being dishonest? NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN IDEA was added to the bill. NONE. Not a single Republican voted for it.
It was entirely written by and voted on by Democrats. Just as the current healthcare bill before Congress is entirely written by and has thus far been voted on, by Republicans. If this bad bill somehow passes and turns out to be a nightmare, can I blame Democrats since the ACA is the basis for the entire bill?
You asked, I delivered. Apologize.
This is what I said:
This is a lie. No other way to spin it. These weren't Republican concessions. Can you show me a single Republican member of congress in 2009 who asked for these concessions? Can you name a single Republican in congress who sat behind those closed door meetings with Pelosi's aides and crafted the bill?
You didn't do that. You said one senator tried to craft the bill, didn't get any support and called it a "completely democratic bill" 3 months before they voted on it. Your narrative that this was a "concession" is a falsehood. No republicans supported nor wrote any part of the bill. Be a man, admit you were wrong, and that not a single line of legislation in the ACA was written by or supported by Republicans. Come on ID, you know you messed up here. Admit it. Don't be like SLC and be intentionally obtuse and disingenuous. You went to college. He didn't.
Point out one piece of the bill that was written by or was a concession to a request from a Republican? Can you do that? Can you provide one part of the law that was a Republican concession, something the GOP asked for, wrote or voted on?
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
I'm not going to jump when you say it. I gave you a name and countered your false claim there was zero input by Republicans. You were wrong, now apologize as I did not lie. You want details, go look it up, you're a big boy. Again, you were wrong.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
I'm not going to jump when you say it. I gave you a name and countered your false claim there was zero input by Republicans. You were wrong, now apologize as I did not lie. You want details, go look it up, you're a big boy. Again, you were wrong.
Come on dude. Don't be a dick. You said there were concessions. You can't provide a single example. I'm sorry if you bought the liberal talking points that the ACA was a GOP idea, but the reality is that not a single Republican idea or opinion was integrated into the bill. None.
You can't call me the asshole when you make a false claim, then find that one republican senator tried to help, and quit because.... tada, the Democrats didn't need a single GOP vote to pass their bill.
That's the objective truth. No GOP input was accepted or implemented into the bill. No republican voted for it. You didn't provide any evidence contrary to that.
I don't want to fight with you. I think you're a reasonable person. So I'm not going to push this anymore.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: US Politics Thread
I thought Trump had a good speech in Poland. Of course he steps on his message by discussing CNN and Obama. Lol
Re: US Politics Thread
misterID wrote:I'm not going to jump when you say it. I gave you a name and countered your false claim there was zero input by Republicans. You were wrong, now apologize as I did not lie. You want details, go look it up, you're a big boy. Again, you were wrong.
Come on dude. Don't be a dick. You said there were concessions. You can't provide a single example. I'm sorry if you bought the liberal talking points that the ACA was a GOP idea, but the reality is that not a single Republican idea or opinion was integrated into the bill. None.
You can't call me the asshole when you make a false claim, then find that one republican senator tried to help, and quit because.... tada, the Democrats didn't need a single GOP vote to pass their bill.
That's the objective truth. No GOP input was accepted or implemented into the bill. No republican voted for it. You didn't provide any evidence contrary to that.
I don't want to fight with you. I think you're a reasonable person. So I'm not going to push this anymore.
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., (amendment) allowed employers who would have to cut jobs to meet health coverage costs the opportunity to seek a waiver from the bill’s requirements.
Politifact: Congress adopted dozens of the amendments proposed by Republicans
I never said they voted for it, said they didn't. This is the last time I do this. Next time, you do the work to prove your claim right.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:misterID wrote:I'm not going to jump when you say it. I gave you a name and countered your false claim there was zero input by Republicans. You were wrong, now apologize as I did not lie. You want details, go look it up, you're a big boy. Again, you were wrong.
Come on dude. Don't be a dick. You said there were concessions. You can't provide a single example. I'm sorry if you bought the liberal talking points that the ACA was a GOP idea, but the reality is that not a single Republican idea or opinion was integrated into the bill. None.
You can't call me the asshole when you make a false claim, then find that one republican senator tried to help, and quit because.... tada, the Democrats didn't need a single GOP vote to pass their bill.
That's the objective truth. No GOP input was accepted or implemented into the bill. No republican voted for it. You didn't provide any evidence contrary to that.
I don't want to fight with you. I think you're a reasonable person. So I'm not going to push this anymore.
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., (amendment) allowed employers who would have to cut jobs to meet health coverage costs the opportunity to seek a waiver from the bill’s requirements.
Politifact: Congress adopted dozens of the amendments proposed by Republicans
I never said they voted for it, said they didn't. This is the last time I do this. Next time, you do the work to prove your claim right.
No, that's not how it works. You don't get to make a false claim, then ask someone else to prove you wrong. I was wondering why you weren't linking your source for your claims. I found the article and now I know why. Politifact rated Obama's claim that hundreds of amendments were adopted from Republicans as "false". You conveniently left that part out from the article you were selectively quoting.
"Republicans had several opportunities to introduce amendments to the Affordable Care Act, in both the Senate and House bills. Ultimately, for procedural reasons tied to the death of Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., the Senate version was the only one that moved forward. But Republicans offered changes in the committees that considered the bills before the whole chambers voted on them."
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif as you cited is a member of the house.
From the above article you've been citing, again
"Republicans had several opportunities to introduce amendments to the Affordable Care Act, in both the Senate and House bills. Ultimately, for procedural reasons tied to the death of Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., the Senate version was the only one that moved forward."
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif
"the Senate version was the only one that moved forward."
And here's part of the article linked and referenced in your politifact article
"The Democratic leadership, fearful that momentum for Obamacare was fading as it continued to poll poorly, decided to rush a bill through the Senate before Christmas 2009. On November 18, Majority Leader Harry Reid merged two separate pending bills into a bill to be voted on by the Senate…. To meet the self-imposed Christmas deadline, Reid provided only six days for debate [on the final version of the bill]. The Senate bill passed on a strict party line vote, 60-39.
Few people, including Senators and their staffs, had time to read the whole 2,700 page bill, much less note any possible weaknesses, flaws, or ambiguities. Reid and other Senate Democrats weren’t terribly worried about this. The bill was set to go to the House, then back to the Senate, then to “reconciliation” between the House and the Senate versions, and then to the president for his signature. Everyone thought there would be plenty of opportunities to make changes."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol … 0a05b48e8d
As we all know, Democrats entirely wrote and passed a bill that Pelosi famously said "We have to pass it first to understand it". It was a huge failure because no one knew what the bill said and Democrats wanted an early political victory for Obama. I don't want Republicans to make the same mistake Democrats did. They have a good shot at not losing in 2018, and I don't want them to create a bad bill that might tip the scales.
And with that I'm truly done.
