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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
I've listened to Frank play with GNR for YEARS. And you do realize Slash and Steven would not have gotten into GNR without their relationship with Duff, right?
And then it just so happened that Slash became the player of his generation on his chosen instrument.
Not expecting that to happen with Frank....you?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
I think the truth of it is somewhere in the middle.
Usually professional musicians are recruited through connections. However usually those recommendations are only made if the person has adequate talent. You don't get a job from word of mouth as a muso if you sucked at your last booking.
Bumble is a good example: He got the job cos Joe Satriani gave him the nod. Why did Joe do that? Cos Bumble is a freak talent and Joe knew it. Why did anyone care what Joe thought? Because Joe is a freak talent.
So a connection alone doesn't mean you have no talent.
That said - I can also see Smoking's point - that despite whatever recommendations - some players made the cut for the exceptional sound. They wanted matt because he was a heavy hitter. They wanted Slash because he has that unique sound. They wanted Bucket because he's a monster player.
So there is also an extent where if you are not a unique player then anyone of a certain level of ability who had the right connection would get the nod.
I think this is true of Frank, it's probably also true of richard even though he's def a fantastic player, and I actually think it's probably true of Adler too....Adler is great...but had Slash been highschool mates with another adaquate drummer it would have been that guy.
It comes down to replicability. You can replace Adler easier than you can replace Slash. You can replace pitman easier than you can replace Axl. It doesn't mean the replacement players aren't pro musicians with great skills. But some people are on another level.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
I think the truth of it is somewhere in the middle.
Usually professional musicians are recruited through connections. However usually those recommendations are only made if the person has adequate talent. You don't get a job from word of mouth as a muso if you sucked at your last booking.
Bumble is a good example: He got the job cos Joe Satriani gave him the nod. Why did Joe do that? Cos Bumble is a freak talent and Joe knew it. Why did anyone care what Joe thought? Because Joe is a freak talent.
So a connection alone doesn't mean you have no talent.
That said - I can also see Smoking's point - that despite whatever recommendations - some players made the cut for the exceptional sound. They wanted matt because he was a heavy hitter. They wanted Slash because he has that unique sound. They wanted Bucket because he's a monster player.
So there is also an extent where if you are not a unique player then anyone of a certain level of ability who had the right connection would get the nod.
I think this is true of Frank, it's probably also true of richard even though he's def a fantastic player, and I actually think it's probably true of Adler too....Adler is great...but had Slash been highschool mates with another adaquate drummer it would have been that guy.
It comes down to replicability. You can replace Adler easier than you can replace Slash. You can replace pitman easier than you can replace Axl. It doesn't mean the replacement players aren't pro musicians with great skills. But some people are on another level.
Perfect answer.
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
This is going to be the biggest tour in recent GNR history, I don't believe Pitman pulled out. He was happy to be onboard, his family also said stuff on twitter, about his daughter seeing her dad at Coachella. You don't get the wife and kids hyped up about your work if you don't plan to follow through.
Something happened.
It may have already been addressed, but that was Dizzy you thinking of. It was Dizzy's ex-wife and daughter that was marking out to his involvement on social media and we so proud.
And they have every right. Dizzy has the 2nd longest tenure in the band and has just as much right to be up there as Slash himself.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
Dizzy has the 2nd longest tenure in the band and has just as much right to be up there as Slash himself.
In particular for his work on that little known album AFD.....
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
Dizzy Reed is in the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, no different than Matt Sorum whom everyone beats off to.
I also want to point out with the continual passive-aggressive Frank bashing, that Matt Sorum has never written material that got him street cred in the rock community (he ain't Don Henley & Phil Collins), and Sorum has never, ever, been able to keep a job in a rock band (mainly 'cause he's a uber tube steak).
I wonder if Axl puts out Chinese II w/ Slash & Duff and it goes triple-platinum with Ferrer on drums, the next argument will be that he didn't write anything with the band (neither did Adler & Sorum).
If Frank gets fired tomorrow, I won't cry. I will hope they find a good enough replacement for such a talent, considering he's the best drummer they've ever had. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But I won't cry. Why? Because GNR's drummer job has always been a disposable position in the band.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
Dizzy Reed is in the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, no different than Matt Sorum whom everyone beats off to.
Ok firstly....you didn't originally compare Dizzy to Matt (I'd entertain an analysis along those lines) - you said that Dizzy was equivalent to SLASH in terms of his importance.
Slash has become THE player of his entire generation, he plays the solos on AFD which is not only GNR's best selling record, it's known for having some of the most important guitar solos in MUSIC HISTORY. Slash's entire stage image has become iconic. I could go on and on but it's absurd to, especially in this era where GNR is again all about the return of Slash and I'm sitting here pointing out that his position as lead guitarist in a famous hard rock guitar band is more important than an additional keyboardist (to Axl).
I'm not here to bash Dizzy. I actually happen to quite like the guy. Like i'm sure many here I've met him and he seemed cool, and he's been in the band for ages, and he plays on some records I like. So i'm not trying to diminish Dizzy.
I'm just saying you can't say he's equivalent to Slash.
Dizzy doesn't really have a public consciousness "sweet child of mine solo" like slash. In fact the piano parts that most know in GNR like November Rain are actually played by Axl - and low and behold - what's the iconic moment in that clip - oh yeah - Slash out the front of a church 
Again though Dizzy is cool, no issue with Dizzy, just saying it seemed silly to me to equate him to Slash. He deserves to be in the hall of fame and he is - but he is not anywhere near as important to the GNR legacy as Slash - nor will be ever will be - if Slash quit again tomorrow and Dizzy stayed another 20 years - that won't change....additional keyboardist just isn't as important as lead guitarist....
I also want to point out with the continual passive-aggressive Frank bashing, that Matt Sorum has never written material that got him street cred in the rock community (he ain't Don Henley & Phil Collins), and Sorum has never, ever, been able to keep a job in a rock band (mainly 'cause he's a uber tube steak).
Well I admit I'm a fan of sorum. But trust me for all the Frank bashing of late there's always a ton more Sorum bashing.
As to your point I think it's legal bullshit.
I went on about this in another thread. But copyrights in songs is usually attributed to who wrote the lyrics, and who wrote the music melodies. Drum parts do not usually attract copyright. The exception to this is when bands have a partnership agreement to divide copyright amongst themselves - many do this to keep things civil and to be fairer to the bass players and drummers. Good example is AFD - steven has his 1/5th share of copyright even though we all know he only wrote the drums not the melodies - but the band back then was more of a brotherhood. By Matt's era it was more about business.
So...sure Matt didn't write the songs on the legal basis. But a good example is YCBM. Legally it's written by Izzy and Axl. That's cos they wrote the lyrics and melody. But we all know matt contributed that awesome drum intro...and how distinctive is that...it basically makes the song....
So i'm a bit tired of the "matt didn't write anything" arguments people keep saying. From the very first drum hit on "Right Next Door to Hell" he is all over those Use Your Illusion albums.
I think Frank is a good dude and he's obviously a capable drummer, but I disagree with your concept that he's the best ever, I think Matt is a far better match to the bands hard rock sound.
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
Guns N' Roses is Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin, Duff McKagan, Steven Adler, Matt Sorum & Dizzy Reed
According to the Rock Hall.
If we start to pull guys out and put others in, we might as well argue the merits of what DJ Ashba is GNR's best guitarist. My point is Frank's the best drummer they've had because he is duplicating the Adler AFD sound, with the virtuosity of the UYI era. That's what GN'R wants. That's what it is. That's what it should always be. Frank is Adler, without all the drug abuse. Arguing for Steven, would be like arguing for Mike Starr over Mike Inez in Alice In Chains circa 1999. Starr is (was) a fuck up. Steven still IS a fuck up. He's out.
So there's Matt. But Matt isn't the GN'R sound. Never was. Sure we identify his playing with the UYI albums and live shows, but GN'R moved away from that sound YEARS AGO.
If GN'R suddenly decide to go back to the big Bonham/Zeppelin/UYI-sound... sure... call Matt. But for the last ten years they've been fine with re-producing their original band foundation sound with a non-drug addict, which is Frank.
Me personally, I happen to think AFD > UYI
I also happen to think CD > UYI (as seperate albums only)
So for now... Frank ftw
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: New Guns N Roses member Melissa Reese
Guns N' Roses is Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin, Duff McKagan, Steven Adler, Matt Sorum & Dizzy Reed
According to the Rock Hall.
Who is the rock hall to determine who is or isn't a band anyway? Just cos they say so doesn't make it absolute.
Didn't Axl raise that very question himself when he didn't go? It's an award ceremony but has no meaning beyond that.
