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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
monkeychow wrote:misterID wrote:Why are we talking about Matt Sorum?
Just filling up the deafening silence from the band while we wait.
GNR fans have perfected the art of bitching about anything.
Yeah I forgot I'm required to be positive because it seems like something good might happen.
Of course we're supposed to overlook the fact that the band has self- sabotaged every single attempt at activity since 1993 one way or another.
It won't happen this time.
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
misterID wrote:monkeychow wrote:Just filling up the deafening silence from the band while we wait.
GNR fans have perfected the art of bitching about anything.
Yeah I forgot I'm required to be positive because it seems like something good might happen.
Of course we're supposed to overlook the fact that the band has self- sabotaged every single attempt at activity since 1993 one way or another.
It won't happen this time.
Don't take it personal, monkey. It was a joke.
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
It's not though. I know Slash sounds good with nearly any rhythm guitarist. In fact I know the rhythm guitar parts are largely irrelevant to the sound of GNR. It's very hard to even hear izzy's parts as distinct from the rhythms also played by slash on UYI. Izzy might be useful for songwriting and so on - but in the live setting it really doesn't make a lot of difference. The 1992 and 1993 tours displayed that.
Meanwhile Matt and Duff have proven fantastic chemistry in a live setting. VR doesn't even have that many awesome songs but I know a bunch of people who will say the contraband live shows are amongst the best gigs they saw, let alone the UYI tour.
To me the absence of matt will make a more impressionable difference to the sound than the absence of Izzy.
Also in the scheme of guitarists I'd say Richard is higher ranked than Frank is in the scheme of drummers.
I'm not denying the various chemistry among various lineups and solo/side projects. I just think it wound up being this lineup for the reasons I mentioned and Sorum's drumming skills, the fact some fans aren't in love with Frank, etc. weren't even taken into consideration.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Pitman is on that stage in Vegas.
I'd be surprised.
the search to replace Bumble simultaneously ceased.
I doubt there was ever a serious search. It is now crystal clear with hindsight that the CD era rotating 'pretend we're moving forward but give you half baked nostalgia' lineup shit was over after Vegas.
How many times can you play the hits under the Chinese Democracy banner to diminishing returns? Hell...it was scraping the bottom of the barrel with the need to call it 'Appetite for Democracy' and 'No Trickery'......what was next....hiring Roseanne Barr and Pee Wee Herman to do a 'This time we REALLY mean No Trickery" residency?
the term is not reunion, that's right. in fact, this is another new lineup, albeit with some returning members.
and yes, I fully agree that Richard is the best guy to step into Izzy's shoes - the only difference is, that he most probably lacks Izzy's writing skills. well, nobody is expecting them from him anyway
Yeah its a "regrouping"...not a great term for it. Sounds like what a politician would label it. 
Most probably lacks Izzy's writing skills? He definitely lacks Izzy's writing skills. The proof is in the pudding and Bill Cosby weighed in on the matter loooong ago.
Slash is returning to conspirators at the end of the year and dropping an album of new material with them then.
If GNR doesn't release any new music with this line up, then it's basically just a handful of reunion shows.
Cornell juggles Soundgarden and his solo career and releases new material and tours under both. The coming year is going to be very telling on what they are really doing with this.
Polluxlm makes a good point. Slash cant be brought back as just a rotating cast member. If he's not there permanently for whenever they hit the stage...a future Slash-less GNR is dead in its tracks.
Another CD reboot afterwards would be playing bowling alleys...literally.
he might start releasing songs off various ChiDem sessions and actually start making money on all that - there are supposed to be tons of recordings. no need to earn billions, just a more "anthology" approach - I'm sure those would be a nice profit for him.
but suddenly I woke up, realizing all this is about two words - AXL and RELEASE in one sentence, and that's probably the single most unrealistic thing ever.
LIke I said above, the coming year will tell us all we need to know on how this will pan out. If we don't start seeing releases like a new GH/Best of or something else on the horizon, it is worst case scenario.
However, it does suggest that Madagascar's off the cards, which is odd as ISTR reading that they were rehearsing it.
All Madagascar requires is a push of a button. Dizzy can push a button.
He put together that trailer that ran prior to Star Wars and tweeted about Coachella. So obviously he was all in early on. So it's interesting to think about how we ended up here. I know the popular belief will be that the tweets sealed his fate, but who knows with this organization. Wouldn't shock me if they strung him along and just recently let him know that he wasn't going to be a part of this, or at least they weren't upfront with him regarding his official status from the start.
Yeah its interesting how this turned out. He seemed really excited.....made sure to credit himself for creating that teaser. It was actually well done....it revealed something without revealing anything. 
The opinions on the drummer situation in this thread are also a great example on one reason to go with Frank....some don't give a shit about Adler...in or out...doesn't matter....some really hate Sorum....some want to see the UYI lineup more intact....but go with Frank......like I said...he's neutral.
If you were planning on going to a show....Frank is not a deal breaker for hardcores or casuals.
but Bumblefoot here on Evo/ROV during a chat supposedly told Lofton ect that he's never seen Tobias before?
Not supposedly. He did tell me that..it was the only question I asked him which was something like....
Have you worked with Paul in the studio recording CD?
Said he never even met the guy.....which actually brings into question if this shadow/studio lineup even existed at that point. We know it did previously....or it could just mean that other than adding his own shit to songs and performing onstage...he was out of any inner loop.
Anybody complaining about this lineup should point their frustration at Slash and Duff. They chose to rejoin the band. It's not Axl's fault that Adler, Sorum, Stradlin, etc. aren't a part of it - Slash and Duff chose to rejoin a current touring entity. They were clearly ok with rejoining Axl's band, and obviously they don't care about other former members because they are happy to play these shows without an ultimatum. MAYBE at the end of the day the compromise was no 3rd guitarist, no second keyboardist, but nothing related to who the other "2" were.
I pretty much agree with this...this lineup is the aftermath of any negotiations. Some tossed aside...some collateral damage..etc.
It also allows them to never call it a reunion and get the massive publicity/buzz by the media and fans calling it one....at least in the opening phase.
SG's prediction:
Alder and Izzy will both make a cameo in Vegas. It will happen. But since those two can't do a full tour this is the core band.
Lofton prediction:
The AFD shindig will happen next year at some point....maybe on the anniversary....major festival... the extremely unlikely SB halftime show...etc.
I find it weird that everyone on here seems to hate sorum...his drum style is very apparent on UYI1, UY2 and TSI and he was a huge part of the feel of the songs on use your illusion - which is what people are always calling to be added back to the setlist.
I don't hate him. That summer 1991 lineup could blow anyone off the stage...hell Izzy even stated that back in an interview before he bailed. I agreed 100% after experiencing it. You're right.... UYI deep cuts being rotated into the set list is what many fans(including me) wanted for years and I always said they were saving that for the reunion...which is why I was surprised when they started busting out DC, Estranged,etc. Luckily there is a ton of stuff left untouched during the CD saga like The Garden, Pretty Tied Up, Double Talking Jive.etc.
I do understand why some cant stand him and he does put off a certain vibe that can rub people the wrong way.
If leaving him out helps ease any future tensions...I understand fully on why they'd leave him out and money not even be a factor in excluding him(even if it is).
So basically Axl is getting what he wanted, and this lineup may be more than a one off money grab.
Hopefully. I want releases...whether its Chinese material, AFD,Lies, UYI, TSI demos,etc. During the entire saga I always preferred any material over the constant nostalgia touring. Its why I believe this first year is key. I don't expect an album this year(they get a free pass on that) but I certainly expect something and if we get into 2017 and there's not even a hint of anything being wrapped in cellophane/thrown on Itunes, its just a massive payday and they're gonna tour until they've had their fill.
I'd love to know what the current contract with the label is. The label will want to capitalize off of this situation. If they don't....well like my grandma would say...we're screwed, blued, and tattooed.
it's no different than Bucket and Robin rejoining.
Come on ID. That's ridiculous.
I love that 2001 lineup but to even compare those two to Slash and Duff rejoining is like comparing apples to nuclear warheads.
If its 2015 and they announce Bucket and Finck back...the silence would be to the extreme you could detect a mouse fart in the Andromeda galaxy. No one but a segment of the extreme hardcores care about that lineup and most Bucket fans don't even want him going back to GNR.
That's what they said about Brain.
Indeed. I thought that exact same thing when reading that and the next post you said it. 
Give them a chance before we start pulling out the pitchforks.
Agreed. I'm supporting them 100% until I see it morphing into pure nostalgia touring with nothing else in sight.....THEN I'll start complaining.
Axl and his boyz are still he majority. If Sorum comes in it is Matt, Duff, and Slash on one side and Axl, Dizzy, and Fortus on the other as far as loyalty. Maybe Axl doesn't want to be out numbered.
Yep. Like I said.....blue team-red team and its pretty close to 'even Steven' ATM.
Speaking of Osaka.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPXRMxfir6s
The 2009-14 lineup were unable to perform that song. They literally couldn't do it.
it's no surprise that this happens when he can not drag the comatose brand any further alone.
Absolutely. He had run out of road on the way to China...
Meanwhile Axl only has the voice left in him for a few more years at most.
Where do we go now? The only sane thing for everyone was to reunite.
Yep. I said the same thing about GNR and Soundgarden.....5 year window...make the most of it.
You now have 4 guys from UYI era and 2 dudes that can barely even be heard on CD.
Yep. Brain's replacement and the Chinese dog whistle. An easy compromise for Slash and Duff to swallow.
I want lots of guest appearances by the whole family (Adler, Sorum, Izzy, Gilby, Zig Zag, Traci, Roberta)
I'm hoping at some point in the future they do an anniversary/tribute show like Metallica did a few years back and include everyone involved at some point.
DJ clearly decided to take his ball and go with Nikki 6. I don't think he did it diplomatically he had a choice and he choose the shitty hair metal band he belongs in.
Ashba joining was the worst thing to happen in the 2000s era of GNR and Ashba leaving was the best thing to happen.
I still have difficulties comprehending this guy was in GNR for six years. God...what a waste.
It started around 2009....
Same here. My interest in the band when Ashba joined and I saw it was gonna be the same thing but including him caused my interest level to drop to zero. I knew they would never release anything with him in the band....he exits stage left six years later and guess what....no releases.
I knew him coming into the fold was a bad sign. Nothing good as far as new material goes would come of it. He was added to make the CD lineup more marketable to casual crowds for touring purposes and I don't care about him strumming a guitar on half baked remixes or recording solos. Not a goddamn thing was coming in an Ashba era....he was there to pretend to be Slash for 3 hours a night...period.
What was the turning point? Maybe it was Rock In Rio 2012 (Still referred to by the general public on youtube as "The Axl Rose Disaster") where you watch it back and academically wonder how a band with so much talent can do that to itself.
I didn't need to academically wonder. Once the post CD era started and judging by recent CD tours and the quality of the replacements of the replacements...I knew which direction it was heading.
I think a MAJOR part of it started in 2014 in vegas when GNR faithfully promised us through it's mastabatory series of fernando and band hints that something special would happen - only to perform basically a rehash of it's previous vegas residency only with less rasp and less enthusiasm across the board.
It had been bait and switch for years and I assume whoever came up with the term No Trickery didn't miss the irony...
You make good points on the rest of that post and I always hated the Scooby Doo, sooper sekrit mystery act. It got old after 2002. At some point they have to realize GNR deserves to be treated like the major act that its supposed to be.
To go off on a tangent, would you need an Izzy Stradlin'? I think so. Look at the songwriting.
Yeah even though I support the lineup they're rolling out...I'm on Izzy's side of the fence. The post Izzy discography is not very mind blowing or prolific to say the least. Yeah I know Slash Duff,etc. had chemistry in VR, solo projects, yada yada yada but it doesn't change the facts.
so you get the cries for Gilby, as well.
If I get to a point where I'm crying for Gilby...I'll be sticking a shotgun in my mouth.
No offense to Gilby.
If Izzy is a no go.....they can pick a random guitarist off the street in that slot for all I care.
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
My comparison with Bucket and Finck returning was only about the dynamics of the band and Axl. It had nuthin to do with the impact with the fans and media. I'm saying it's Axl's band no matter who is in it and Duff and Slash joined it, basically.
And there was a Ron replacement and she didn't work out.
I'll just say, I don't take the drum head as a definite sign of who is in or out.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
I'll just say, I don't take the drum head as a definite sign of who is in or out.
Sorum for life 
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
My comparison with Bucket and Finck returning was only about the dynamics of the band and Axl. It had nuthin to do with the impact with the fans and media. I'm saying it's Axl's band no matter who is in it and Duff and Slash joined it, basically.
And there was a Ron replacement and she didn't work out.
I'll just say, I don't take the drum head as a definite sign of who is in or out.
Its not the same. Bucket and Finck had zero stake in the band and were not in any sort of partnership.
Yeah I've heard about the Orianthi crap.....I just don't think anyone took any of that seriously(including Axl/TB). It was regrouping or bust and since no one gives a rat's patootie about a 3rd guitarist, the issue was null and void. If she was auditioned it was nothing more than an audition for shits and giggles. If it was just discussions then they were disingenuous at best.
To a degree(and for laughs) I can imagine a last ditch effort being considered to roll out a new lineup and have the fan base sit around pretending this new lineup needs to tour, get some momentum while this new guitarist adds another layer to 15 year old tracks sitting in a vault while we all sing along to Jungle for the trillionth time.
then they come to their senses, realize he had run out of road on the AFD disguised as Chinese Democracy tour, then used his trump card which was about 8-10 years overdue.
- Mama's Good Boy
- Rep: 25
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
Sorum, I respect his time in the band, but I think its better to move on without him.
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
misterID wrote:My comparison with Bucket and Finck returning was only about the dynamics of the band and Axl. It had nuthin to do with the impact with the fans and media. I'm saying it's Axl's band no matter who is in it and Duff and Slash joined it, basically.
And there was a Ron replacement and she didn't work out.
I'll just say, I don't take the drum head as a definite sign of who is in or out.
Its not the same. Bucket and Finck had zero stake in the band and were not in any sort of partnership.
Yeah I've heard about the Orianthi crap.....I just don't think anyone took any of that seriously(including Axl/TB). It was regrouping or bust and since no one gives a rat's patootie about a 3rd guitarist, the issue was null and void. If she was auditioned it was nothing more than an audition for shits and giggles. If it was just discussions then they were disingenuous at best.
To a degree(and for laughs) I can imagine a last ditch effort being considered to roll out a new lineup and have the fan base sit around pretending this new lineup needs to tour, get some momentum while this new guitarist adds another layer to 15 year old tracks sitting in a vault while we all sing along to Jungle for the trillionth time.
then they come to their senses, realize he had run out of road on the AFD disguised as Chinese Democracy tour, then used his trump card which was about 8-10 years overdue.
Again, Robin and Bucket comparison is not in any way shape or form the same as Slash and Duff and their history or I'm!pact. My comparison was about Axl and his direction of the band will be what he wants. It doesn't matter who gets in the band.
I believe it went be lot further than that with her. There was a contract and she backed out at the last minute.
- Major Mayhem
- Rep: 6
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
Axl's true "vision" is minimal work for maximum profit. A record isn't really worth it to him, but touring is. That's why sluff is back. This is it. Axl better bring whatever his A game is at this point, or they'll be no want or need for a tour, at least in the U.S, after these 6 shows.
I'd be absolutely flabbergasted if they came up with something new, meaning something written over the past two years. But, we all know the best we can hope for is some reworked demo's with young Axl's voice mixed in.
Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup
Again, Robin and Bucket comparison is not in any way shape or form the same as Slash and Duff and their history or I'm!pact. My comparison was about Axl and his direction of the band will be what he wants. It doesn't matter who gets in the band.
It doesn't matter who gets in the band? 
Really? I strongly disagree. It sure as shit matters who gets in the band and matters more now than it ever did before. The clock is ticking. There's no time left to waste hiring any more Bimblearms and Bucketnoses for diminishing returns to supposedly see what they're doing in regards to an album that was never coming under those circumstances.
Slash and Duff are game changers. The label clearly didn't give the tiniest of shits about releasing more material after 2008. It's safe to say that their interest has just went up dramatically. They've been paid almost 30 million for four shows. Its not Fortus and Frank causing promoters to go ape shit.
Yeah Axl owns the name...the two members who just came back are in the partnership...that equals leverage(and massive paychecks)....its not a situation like Ron, Finck,etc. were in where they have absolutely zero say in anything. Ron wanted Atlas Shrugged released...he was ignored. Are you telling me if Slash has interest in reworking that and getting it released that his feelings on the matter hold the same weight as Ron's?
I believe it went be lot further than that with her. There was a contract and she backed out at the last minute.
SHE backed out? If true....she saw it for what I described above....knew it was a pipe dream and nothing would ever come of it.
IMO if any serious attempt was going to be made to reboot the CD era....feelers would've been put out to Bucket and Finck. Yeah I know....ancient history....but so is that album yet to be released and he could've at least had the 2002 lineup but with Frank out there touring and promoting it...assuming its release of course.
As much as I would have loved that, I find that scenario laughable as well as there was just no point in going that route in 2016. He had his chance with various CD lineups....a couple of them GREAT lineups...it didn't happen for various reasons...now its time to put on your top hat and start chain smoking Marlboros.
Axl's true "vision" is minimal work for maximum profit.
Karma.
