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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
He lost me at single payer. There's zero chance the gov't won't fuck up health care. Zero. I don't care who is in office. Insurance companies aren't the issue. They just get blamed because that's the easy way to do it. Until costs get controlled there's nothing anybody can do to fix health care.
We should also move to performance based pay for physicians instead of volume based pay. Why do we have to pay for them to keep trying to fix the same thing over and over instead of paying when they actually fix it? There are so many things wrong with health care beyond insurance companies.
Drug makers are a huge reason costs are so high. Look at the douche on Capitol Hill the other day "testifying" about a $750 pill.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
misterID wrote:buzzsaw wrote:So what does Bernie believe in other than free stuff? Some people I really like seem to respect him, so someone that knows something about Bernie fill me in.
He wants trade reform, an end to unfair trade, regulating Wall Street, that's a big thing with him, and capping medical and pharmecutical costs. He wants free college which will never happen, free healthcare, another thing we'll never see. This means higher taxation on the wealthy and middle class. I understand what he's saying, it isn't about not wanting to have a wealthy class, it's that the top 1% pay little to no taxes at all compared to the working-middle class who are left holding the bag, but he's going about it wrong, but I also suspect he knows it's unrealistic.
Mostly true, but the higher taxation thing is unfair. He has clearly stated that middle class families will end up saving thousands of dollars on a yearly basis with his plan for a single payer healthcare system. Instead of paying to insurance companies, you'll pay a fraction of that in additional income taxes (2.2%), your employer will pay an extra 6.8% in payroll tax. Both of these numbers will replace current group health insurance costs and will effectively be lower than what both employers and employees are paying today. So yes, it's a small tax increase on the middle class, but at the end of the month you'll still have more money in pocket.
Insurance is a perfect example of a segment that benefits from economies of scale, a non-profit single-payer healthcare system will always be cheaper to run (and thus cheaper for the general public to use) than a for-profit fragmented private insurance based system.
If you're worried about the government not being able to run healthcare efficiently, then fix the fucking government by voting for people who actually want to fix the fucking government, don't vote for so-called self proclaimed moderates that only want to maintain the status quo. Don't just throw your hands in the air claiming that 'this will never work in America'. If the Canadians can do it, why wouldn't the Americans be able to?
I agree with you that Bernie must realize that it is going to be challenging for him to push through his proposals, but you don't start by taking a moderate position before you negotiate. And I do think it's better to be more ambitious at the start, to not make concessions before the negotiations have even started. A watered down ambitious Bernie plan is still miles better than a pure deferential Hillary plan.
He has said a portion of the middle class will pay higher taxes, and its inevitable it would run off to the entire middle class, IMO.
Fraud is the worst. Dealing with my parents and my own health problems, doctors are the fucking worst con men ever. It's disgusting what they over charge insurance companies and medicare. I had a ctscan to diagnose I had a 5 1/2 mm Kidney stone lodged in the opening of my bladder, and a prescription for flomax and hydrocodone for $8,000 dollars. 15 minutes, a ct scan, iv, and a visit with an rn and doctor. The meds cost over $300. Plus $1500 for the radiologist to read the scan and a $350 charge for a doctor that was on duty who I never even spoke to.
We had an eye doctor for my dad who was gouging Medicare $10,000 a visit for procedures he never received on top of the enflated costs he was getting.
If you cut out the fraud it would make medicare solvent, but its an industry in and of itself, and you can't do it when you disallow regulation and turn government oversight agencies into swiss cheese with cuts.
- Mama's Good Boy
- Rep: 25
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
So what does Bernie believe in other than free stuff? Some people I really like seem to respect him, so someone that knows something about Bernie fill me in.
Bernie is appealing for many reasons.
First, he is not bought and paid for by the corporations/wall street/lobbyists/special interests. He does not have a super pac. When you take huge sums of money from corporate interests, they expect favors in return. In fact he is open about how he wants to take on all the special interests and corporate America.
Second, the man has been consistent on the positions for nearly 50 years. He supported gay rights way before it became acceptable for most politicans to do so. He doesn't care about what the polling says. He has stood up for what is right his entire career.
Even if you don't agree with him on the issues, his authenticity is something that is sorely lacking in politics and its hard to deny.
As far as 'free stuff', he wants to make OUR tax dollars work for US. Its our money. Every other major country out there is able to ensure its citizens have access to health care, have affordable higher education, etc.
I don't want free shit. I make a good living and am able to support my family. But I want a government that works for the interests of the middle class.. not the Walton family or Wall Street.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
buzzsaw wrote:So what does Bernie believe in other than free stuff? Some people I really like seem to respect him, so someone that knows something about Bernie fill me in.
Bernie is appealing for many reasons.
First, he is not bought and paid for by the corporations/wall street/lobbyists/special interests. He does not have a super pac. When you take huge sums of money from corporate interests, they expect favors in return. In fact he is open about how he wants to take on all the special interests and corporate America.
Second, the man has been consistent on the positions for nearly 50 years. He supported gay rights way before it became acceptable for most politicans to do so. He doesn't care about what the polling says. He has stood up for what is right his entire career.
Even if you don't agree with him on the issues, his authenticity is something that is sorely lacking in politics and its hard to deny.
As far as 'free stuff', he wants to make OUR tax dollars work for US. Its our money. Every other major country out there is able to ensure its citizens have access to health care, have affordable higher education, etc.
I don't want free shit. I make a good living and am able to support my family. But I want a government that works for the interests of the middle class.. not the Walton family or Wall Street.
The biggest problem in politics is too much big money influencing the Congress and POTUS to go against what the people really want. Sanders, Ron Paul, and very few others over the last 50 years have been squeaky clean. Those two guys have very different views on the role of government, but they strongly agree that big corporate money is a massive problem. Teddy Roosevelt agreed 100 years ago and somehow we as a country lost our way in this regard. We need more people like Teddy, Bernie, and Ron Paul in our political system.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Rubio did not have a good night.
Last night's winners were Trump,Kasich, Bush, Christie.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Christie destroyed Rubio in that debate. Caught him repeating the same memorized lines over and over and carved him up on the issue of leading as a governor versus speechifying in the Senate. Rubio's timing is not good with this election following Obama's administration. Republicans spent the last 8 years complaining that Obama was too young and inexperienced as a first term Senator to be POTUS. Marco Rubio fits this description as well. He even has really good speaking ability like Obama did, which makes people more likely to think he's a fraud given his lack of experience.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Christie destroyed Rubio in that debate. Caught him repeating the same memorized lines over and over and carved him up on the issue of leading as a governor versus speechifying in the Senate. Rubio's timing is not good with this election following Obama's administration. Republicans spent the last 8 years complaining that Obama was too young and inexperienced as a first term Senator to be POTUS. Marco Rubio fits this description as well. He even has really good speaking ability like Obama did, which makes people more likely to think he's a fraud given his lack of experience.
I agree.
Who will finish second?
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Raising taxes doesn't help the middle class. Good jobs help the middle class. Higher paying good jobs. Every other solution does not help the middle class.
Bernie has the luxury of being from Vermont. He never had to fight in an election. He never had to defend or make an important vote with consequences, where his career was on the line. He's never had the responsibility of diplomacy or working across the isle. He's never had to fight. He's never had to deal with real problems. He's had the luxury of being the outsider who could do, vote or say whatever he wanted to the point of calling himself an independent socialist (he was never even a democrat) and his district would vote for him because he's Bernie the mascot. And making college free means shit when so many kids are born at a disadvantage of being poor, with bad school programs and undiagnosed learning problems where they'll never have a real shot at a university, but they will be left paying for privlaged kids to go to a school they could actually afford themselves.
- Mama's Good Boy
- Rep: 25
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Raising taxes doesn't help the middle class. Good jobs help the middle class. Higher paying good jobs. Every other solution does not help the middle class.
Bernie isn't proposing raising taxes on the middle class unless we can get on a single payer health care system, which would save money from overall, taking away premiums/deductables.
Also a useful resource:
http://ilikeberniebut.com/
